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Old May 19th, 2011, 09:05 PM   #321
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The St Gervais (F)-Chamonix (F)-Martigny (CH) railway reaches 90‰ in adhesion on metric gauge.

(the Uetlibergbahn is standard gauge)
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Old May 20th, 2011, 08:00 AM   #322
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Speeding it up might even be risky, as some people gaining that much altitude so fast could lead to medical problems.
This makes no sense. Airplane cabins are pressurized at the equivalent of an altitude of 2.700-2.900m (usually), and they ascent to that altitude faster than any railway in the world.
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Old May 20th, 2011, 08:47 AM   #323
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This makes no sense. Airplane cabins are pressurized at the equivalent of an altitude of 2.700-2.900m (usually), and they ascent to that altitude faster than any railway in the world.
Trains are not pressured like Airplanes , that would cause aton of health issues. Even driving fast down a mountain causes issues....
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Old May 20th, 2011, 10:23 AM   #324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
This makes no sense. Airplane cabins are pressurized at the equivalent of an altitude of 2.700-2.900m (usually), and they ascent to that altitude faster than any railway in the world.
Airplanes are usually pressured at the equivalent altitude of around 2100m, as 2500m is about the altitude some people start having medical problems.
The Jungfraubahn starts at 2061, and climbs to 3454m. So yes, they have to take the health of their passengers in to consideration.
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Old May 20th, 2011, 12:55 PM   #325
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Cog railways are outdated IMO. They are too slow. How is the largest speed a train can attain in a cog railway with 4% incline?
Rack railways have their purpose, to go up steep inclines reliably in all weather.

They are not for high speed IC travel.
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Old May 20th, 2011, 03:14 PM   #326
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Trains are not pressured like Airplanes , that would cause aton of health issues. Even driving fast down a mountain causes issues....
This makes absolutely no sense. A common flight will achieve 6000ft from sea level in few minutes, something a railway will never achieve. Same goes for descent. The effect you experience on your ears downhill has to do with the combination of lateral balance (going down a mountain usually means driving fast in a curvy road or zig-zagging down a ski course or taking a gondola/aerial tram down) with the vertical descent (most humans are more sensitive to rapidly increased than decreased pressure).

In any case: high(ish) speed trains are partially pressurized in an indirect way. I'm sure Swiss trains are. Otherwise, it would be VERY uncomfortable to cross another fast moving train as fast speed in a tunnel.

Fast air displacement can create 2 situation on rail:

- on open air, increased pressures on the frontal and lateral parts of the train that face the wind (main reason for those cool front car designs). This is easy to tackle, though high-speed front cockpits windows and frame withstand pressures per sq. inch greater than an aircraft.

- decreased pressure on certain areas where the air flow is displaced, which means windows and doors have to be reinforced to withstand the pressure neutralization natural trend and preserve the environment within the carriage more comfortable.

Above 230 km/h, these effects are increased dramatically even in open air. In tunnels, this might become serious business. Sure ventilation systems are highly complex to deal with it, but still passengers would feel VERY uncomfortable if train cars were not partially passively pressurized. Then sometimes I hear/read someone whining about the lack of windows that could be opened on high-speed trains...
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Old May 20th, 2011, 05:59 PM   #327
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A 28 km/h fast mountain railway can hardly be counted as high speed rail of course, and those mountain trains are certainly not pressurized.

But I don't think it's a big risk going up an angle of 25% with 28 km/h, compared to modern cablecars it's a slow descend/ascend. At the Jungfraujoch simple height sickness is a much bigger issue, especially for people that aren't used to heights. Just image the Japanese tourist that go from watching tulip fields in Holland at sea level at day one to the 'top' of the Jungfraujoch at 3454m at day two of their European round trip.
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Old May 21st, 2011, 05:51 AM   #328
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2 interesting rail videos from Switzerland, driver's perspective:

Strecke Interlaken - Luzern, now Zentralbahn:



Strecke Brig - Bern via old Lötschberg Tunnel:

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Old May 21st, 2011, 10:10 AM   #329
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Why don't they convert it to standard gauge?
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Old May 21st, 2011, 01:43 PM   #330
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Why don't they convert it to standard gauge?
Your're referring to the Zentralbahn? It would be very expensive, and there really is not point in doing this.
The Lötschbergbahn has always been normal gauge.
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Old May 21st, 2011, 01:48 PM   #331
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Why don't they convert it to standard gauge?
Your're referring to the Zentralbahn? It would be very expensive, and there really is not point in doing this.
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Old May 21st, 2011, 05:44 PM   #332
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One of the alternatives of the AlpTransit project was for a Lugano-Locarno-Meiringen line (known as Gotthard West-Gottardo Ovest), with a branch to Luzern and one do Interlaken, replacing the Brünigbahn.
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Old May 21st, 2011, 07:49 PM   #333
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Quote:
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Trains are not pressured like Airplanes , that would cause aton of health issues. Even driving fast down a mountain causes issues....
Equipment on the recently opened Lhasa, Tibet line is pressurized.

Mike
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Old May 21st, 2011, 08:41 PM   #334
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Talking about changing gauge.

What happened with that whole project connecting the MOB line with the Zentralbahn. First it was all the way from Montreux to Luzern with a mixed gauge track between Zweisimmen and Interlaken Ost. Then after a long time the project came back to live as Trans Golden Pass. They would be using a train with variable gauge axles, but only between Montreux and Interlaken. Now it's scaled back even further with just a service between Montreux and Spiez because the Kanton Bern doesn't want to pay for more trains.

Is it really worth the bother and the money to go ahead as planned with a start of service in 2015? Can't the BLS just a put some Golden Pass stickers on an extra Lötschberger set that runs a couple of services between Zweisimmen and Interlaken. It doesn't really matter if people have to change in Zweisimmen or in Spiez anyway.
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Old May 21st, 2011, 08:55 PM   #335
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Quote:
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It doesn't really matter if people have to change in Zweisimmen or in Spiez anyway.
I agree...without reaching Interlaken the whole project is useless.

Description: http://www.goldenpass.ch/documents/showFile.asp?ID=3428
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Old May 22nd, 2011, 10:39 AM   #336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momo1435 View Post
Is it really worth the bother and the money to go ahead as planned with a start of service in 2015? Can't the BLS just a put some Golden Pass stickers on an extra Lötschberger set that runs a couple of services between Zweisimmen and Interlaken. It doesn't really matter if people have to change in Zweisimmen or in Spiez anyway.
Well, BLS already has dedicated Golden Pass stock anyway.

But going to Spiez has some point though. Spiez is on the main North - South route. It's a main hub, which Zweisimmen isn't. And it will allow to gain some experience with this technology, which might come in use elsewhere too.
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Old May 22nd, 2011, 10:46 PM   #337
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I see your point, but since the original aim of this project was to connect the Golden Pass with the Brünig to make a new train that would try to rival the Glacier Express it's just a bit meager. From Spiez it's just a short distance to Interlaken where it can connect with the Zentralbahn and the BOB, that would just be more interesting for tourist.

And I know the BLS has a couple of Golden Pass cars, but how much longer can they be using those aging EW I cars?
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Old May 23rd, 2011, 10:03 AM   #338
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The undamaged parts of the ETR 470.006 (derailed on May 9th) and 007 (fire of May 17th) will be probably merged to create a "working" train. As the 007 already has one vehicle of the 003 following another fire, there will be a hybrid train formed by cars originally built for three different sets.
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Old May 23rd, 2011, 03:05 PM   #339
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Quote:
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I see your point, but since the original aim of this project was to connect the Golden Pass with the Brünig to make a new train that would try to rival the Glacier Express it's just a bit meager.
I know that on the surface it looks meager. But I suspect that one of the reasons underlying this project is to just test the technology. It works and is reliable it could be used for a lot of other services. And if the Golden Pass becomes more popular it could be that BLS decides to run it to Interlaken anyway.
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Old May 23rd, 2011, 08:14 PM   #340
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Quote:
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The undamaged parts of the ETR 470.006 (derailed on May 9th) and 007 (fire of May 17th) will be probably merged to create a "working" train. As the 007 already has one vehicle of the 003 following another fire, there will be a hybrid train formed by cars originally built for three different sets.
That will surely affect already affected timetable, won't it? It's kinda Frankensteinish train...
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