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Old July 30th, 2011, 01:04 PM   #381
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I hate, anywhere they might be, these local-level politicians that dare to mingle to argue about strictly technical decisions like "a train every hour" or "a flight that arrives here, but departing xyz only after 9pm".

Sure, it is ok to demand a longer runway, a wider highway, a straightened/tunneled railway, but to go down on schedules is pedantic. In CH, NL, I or anywhere else.
Bullshit. Locals are by definition important stakeholders and the schedule is essential for the transport service provided in their area. So its their right to make their elected representants demand proper services and not only the infrastructure.

Your argumentation is like saying: "Ok, we'll get a motorway connection. It won't lead anywhere someone would like to go, but we get it, so now we have to shut up."
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Old July 30th, 2011, 01:47 PM   #382
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Bullshit. Locals are by definition important stakeholders and the schedule is essential for the transport service provided in their area. So its their right to make their elected representants demand proper services and not only the infrastructure.

Your argumentation is like saying: "Ok, we'll get a motorway connection. It won't lead anywhere someone would like to go, but we get it, so now we have to shut up."
I am not saying locals are not stakeholders, just saying that nobody should start wasting time and resources for something that is strictly technical like to decide if a train comes 7h26 or 7h34.

If there are problems with overcrowded trains or lengthy trips, then it is ok to demand faster travel times and more seats, but to mingle with the specifics of timetable, it is too much.
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Old July 30th, 2011, 08:33 PM   #383
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they are not telling SBB-CFF which schedules should they put into place, they're simply asking to double the capacity between La-Chaux-de-Fonds and Lausanne, as there is one train per hour right now (departing from Lausanne and changing trains in Neuchâtel). Given the Swiss railways schedules system, there is a train departing every hour from Lausanne at X:45' for Neuchâtel so it would make a lot of sense to introduce the second train at X:15' (instead of a weird thing like at X:00'), but of course CFF could choose to move all trains at X:00' and X:30' instead.
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Old July 30th, 2011, 08:53 PM   #384
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Departing times are an essential component of train services. Of course, local stakeholders in almost all cases can't directly influence exact times, but they can - and have to - demand departures that fit their needs - being it either departures at convenient times (e. g. for pupils to get to school and back home without having to wait on the platform too long) or by demanding regular intervals.
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Old August 2nd, 2011, 11:19 PM   #385
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The new look Re 4/4 II -> Re420 LION


http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/zuerich/...story/29245392


30 of the 250+ Re 4/4 II locomotives will be refurbished to be used for rush-hour trains on the Zürich S-Bahn. 15 sets will be formed together with former DPZ double-deck coaches with a loco at each end.
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Old August 9th, 2011, 01:06 PM   #386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I am not saying locals are not stakeholders, just saying that nobody should start wasting time and resources for something that is strictly technical like to decide if a train comes 7h26 or 7h34.
That is not how the public get involved. The technical details of the timetable are worked out by the competent technicians.
However, the service level is discusses on the stakeholder level, and rightly so. Those that pay for the service are entitled to comment on it, after all.

So mostly the discussions are about "do we want a train every hour or every half hour" or "do we want a train or a bus" or which services should connect with which when it's not possible to give short transfer times in all directions.
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Old October 7th, 2011, 07:42 PM   #387
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The new timetables of Shitalpino trains have been published. Another train has been cancelled (the 18-19), reducing the number of trips from 15 in 2008 to 7 in 2012 (those 7 are quite often overcrowded with standing people, even if there has been a drop in passenger numbers caused by the mismanagement of the SBB).

EC 12 Milano 7.10 Zurigo 10.51
EC 14 Milano 9.10 Zurigo 12.51
EC 16 Milano 11.10 Zurigo 14.51
EC 18 canceled (change in Chiasso from S11 Porta Garibaldi 12.38)
EC 20 Milano 15.10 Zurigo 18.51
EC 22 Milano 17.10 Zurigo 21.29
EC 24 Milano 19.10 Zurigo 23.29
EC 158 Milano 20.10 Zurigo 10.51 (per Basilea)

EC 13 Zurigo 7.09 Milano 10.50
EC 153 Zurigo 8.09 Milano 11.50 (da Basilea)
EC 15 Zurigo 8.31 Milano 12.50
EC 17 Zurigo 11.09 Milano 14.50
EC 19 canceled (change in Chiasso to S11 Porta Garibaldi 17.22)
EC 21 Zurigo 15.09 Milano 18.50
EC 23 Zurigo 17.09 Milano 20.50
EC 25 Zurigo 19.09 Milano 22.50

Thank you, SBB. Thank you.

PS the 14-23 round trip is made by the same train. As it is late 90% of the days, it would have been more serious to advertise an arrival in Zürich at 13.29, not 12.51. Just like what has been done for EC 24, which will arrive at 23.29 to include the usual 40 minutes of delay. In the following table the delays of the last month of EC 14: only for 4 days out of 35 it had less than 15 minutes of delay.



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Old October 7th, 2011, 08:25 PM   #388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momo1435 View Post
The new look Re 4/4 II -> Re420 LION


http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/zuerich/...story/29245392


30 of the 250+ Re 4/4 II locomotives will be refurbished to be used for rush-hour trains on the Zürich S-Bahn. 15 sets will be formed together with former DPZ double-deck coaches with a loco at each end.
I am highly impressed of the Re 4/4 II, and that it has been kept alive for so long. Their beautiful, and an example of that newer is not just better, there's certain advances to keeping certain things!
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Old October 7th, 2011, 11:31 PM   #389
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Quote:
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I am highly impressed of the Re 4/4 II, and that it has been kept alive for so long. Their beautiful, and an example of that newer is not just better, there's certain advances to keeping certain things!
The Swiss railway management is cheap in the negative sense. "Revamped" old tracks, tricking schedules instead of focusing on performance, retrofitting trains instead of placing orders for state-of-the-art stock, single-lane "optmizd" tracks... Lot's of issues with Swiss rail management.
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Old October 8th, 2011, 10:47 AM   #390
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Yeah we know, reality sucks. But unlike you the most of find it much more interesting to see how the railway companies actually deal with all the possibilities and constraints that have an influence on building and maintaining an existing network. We understand that rebuilding a complete network isn't an option and therefor won't go bitching about it until nobody cares anymore what we got to say.


@Alseimik

I also got a soft spot for these locomotives. It's got a simple look, but that also it's charm. And they keep on working and working, it's a good example of high quality Swiss engineering.

But with the new IC double decker trains and the ongoing deliveries of new Stadler Flirts regional trains most of the Re 4/4 II won't be around as long as these 30 refurbished locos, they can't go on forever.
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Old October 8th, 2011, 11:58 AM   #391
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There was the day before yesterday a lateral collision between two regional trains near Basel, apparently caused by one driver not respecting a traffic light: TSR (only in french)
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Old October 8th, 2011, 12:08 PM   #392
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo;84497070Thank you, SBB. Thank you.[URL="http://imageshack.us"
[/URL]
This is supposed to be temporary, right? I remember there was an agreement signed between the FS, SBB, the Tessin and Lombardia around 2 months ago to increase the frequency before the universal exhibition in milano in 2015, the cisalpino in particular should be replaced in 2014 by another service.

found it! the news is here: http://www.tsr.ch/info/radio/les-tit...-l-italie.html

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Old October 8th, 2011, 10:54 PM   #393
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There has been a speech, but no real agreement. Apparently things may get better in the medium term (2015), but next year will be worsened.

PS the source for delays is http://www.cessoalpino.com/ (the name is a pun, it is similar to the original name of the service "Cisalpino" but means "Toilet-alpino" in Italian), it's a website created by a commuter of the Gotthard line. The website has a software that stores in a database all delays provided by official sources ( http://prosurf.sbb.ch/ and http://mobile.viaggiatreno.com/ ). One can search delays by train or by day, from 2006 up to now.
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Old October 8th, 2011, 11:06 PM   #394
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Regional trains also have a lot of delays according to Coccodrillo's linked site.

How credible are claims like this (from that site):

Quote:
Piccola chicca: l'ETR 470 n. 9, dopo essere stato in revisione per oltre 8 mesi, è tornato a circolare pochi giorni fa. Mercoledì era in servizio come EC 21 con 1 unità di trazione su 3 fuori uso, sistema di pendolamento fuori uso, 5 wc guasti e una carrozza senza climatizzazione!
If a train returned from heavy overhaul, why on earth should it have the titling mechanism disabled and 3 traction units out of use within days of its reentry on service? Seems like shoddy maintenance work.

==================================

A question: shouldn't they move those trains from the problematic Gotthard line (until the new tunnel opens) and shift most services via Loestchber and Simplon tunnels instead, cutting some stops to make up time of course?
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Old October 8th, 2011, 11:16 PM   #395
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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
The Swiss railway management is cheap in the negative sense. "Revamped" old tracks, tricking schedules instead of focusing on performance, retrofitting trains instead of placing orders for state-of-the-art stock, single-lane "optmizd" tracks... Lot's of issues with Swiss rail management.
I think 99% of the world's population would almost kill for their country to have Swiss railways. There's no use griping about those things.
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Old October 8th, 2011, 11:37 PM   #396
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Regional trains also have a lot of delays according to Coccodrillo's linked site.
They have often 4 or 5 minutes delay, but usually they recover them before the terminus. And it's nothing comapred to the EC CIS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
How credible are claims like this (from that site):

If a train returned from heavy overhaul, why on earth should it have the titling mechanism disabled and 3 traction units out of use within days of its reentry on service? Seems like shoddy maintenance work.
Each ETR 470 is composed by three "traction units" more or less indipendents. According to the failure, one of these may be out of order but without halting completely the train. Each train has 6 pantographs: 2 each for Italy, Switzerland and Germany, but as those for Germany were added later, only 4 of the pantographs can be used with the tilting activated (the two for Italy, and one of each other type). It is possible (I'm not sure, it is a supposition) that if one traction unit break down the pantograph linked to it become unusable. And if this pantograph is one of the tilting ones the conductor has to use the backup pantograph that forbid tilting (because backup pantographs cannot move in the opposite direction of the car body).

In addition the ETR 470 are quite ureliable, so sometimes they have to put quickly into service a non completely repaired (but running) set because one or two other trains broke down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
A question: shouldn't they move those trains from the problematic Gotthard line (until the new tunnel opens) and shift most services via Loestchber and Simplon tunnels instead, cutting some stops to make up time of course?
The problem is not the line but the trains and the badily planned timetable. The route via the Simplon-Lötschberg would not be quicker and much shorter travel times are not possible because of the timetable and the infrastructure.

PS no, cancelling 20 trains to reduce Milan-Zürich travel time by 15 minutes is not considered a viable option.
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Old October 8th, 2011, 11:44 PM   #397
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They have often 4 or 5 minutes delay, but usually they recover them before the terminus. And it's nothing comapred to the EC CIS.
I used that website for STATISTICS/ then RE, and some trains have average delays of 14-20 minutes.

Quote:
PS no, cancelling 20 trains to reduce Milan-Zürich travel time by 15 minutes is not considered a viable option.
Cancelling is not needed! Just slow'em down, like they do in Italy with hierarchized planning. If a faster train needs to pass, too bad, lower trains gotta spend time at stations idling to make room for the faster and more important trains.
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Old October 8th, 2011, 11:51 PM   #398
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1) yes, but they are the minority of the trains, not the majority

2) it's impossible now (I don't even try to explain you why), however it's what is done when a new structure is planified
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Old October 9th, 2011, 01:07 AM   #399
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1) yes, but they are the minority of the trains, not the majority"
Indeed, I realized the average delay parameter doesn't consider trains that arrived with zero delay (= on time).

Quote:
2) it's impossible now (I don't even try to explain you why), however it's what is done when a new structure is planified
Of course it is!

Example: A Zürich Hautbanhof-Bern-Visp-Domodossola-Milano Centrale is scheduled. It can run without interfering with the SBB's ICs.

Put that train running, and then if a train would have conflict on the Lötschberg tunnel, hold it on the previous station with a passing loop until the Cisalpino train overtake them. This will increase travel time for those who now miss a connection, but long distance trains are more important than commuter trains anyway.
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Old October 10th, 2011, 08:50 AM   #400
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A question: shouldn't they move those trains from the problematic Gotthard line (until the new tunnel opens) and shift most services via Loestchber and Simplon tunnels instead, cutting some stops to make up time of course?
Simplon tunnel has limited capacity at the moment. That's why there are so few international trains on that route also.

The biggest problem is however Trenitalia's complete disinterest in international services.
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