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Old October 10th, 2011, 08:57 AM   #401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Example: A Zürich Hautbanhof-Bern-Visp-Domodossola-Milano Centrale is scheduled. It can run without interfering with the SBB's ICs.
If you want to travel Zürich - Milano via Bern - Visp you can already do so.
Take for example the 12:32 from Zürich to Bern, and change to the EC to Milano there. Total travel time 4h06. Just a bit slower than via the Gotthard.

However, the most important function of the Gotthard trains is not transporting people from Zürich to Milano. It's transporting people from the northern part of Switzerland to Ticino, and transporting people from Ticino to Milano.
It's just a matter of efficiency to combine Zürich - Chiasso with Bellinzona - Milano.

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, but long distance trains are more important than commuter trains anyway.
Not when the commuters are the tax payers that financed the construction of the line.
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Old October 10th, 2011, 09:29 AM   #402
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The Swiss railway management is cheap in the negative sense. "Revamped" old tracks, tricking schedules instead of focusing on performance, retrofitting trains instead of placing orders for state-of-the-art stock, single-lane "optmizd" tracks... Lot's of issues with Swiss rail management.
What is it that you have against efficiency? Against a company trying to make a profit?

And why is it that you manage to time and time again display so much ignorance of the real world?

SBB _is_ placing orders for state-of-the-art stock. In fact, the railway industry has trouble offering stuff that is modern enough for the SBB....
A lot of new rolling stock is being put in to service, and they have huge outstanding orders.
SBB is a incredibly good at enticing people to travel by train. Better than anyone else in Europe apparently. That's called "success" and it does come with its share of problems. Basically the situation is that although the SBB is putting new wheels on the tracks as fast as the industry can provide them this is not sufficient to cope with the increased demand. Hence life extention measures on older stock is needed.

That refurbished locomotive that was shown a few posts earlier fits in a well thought through concept.
The Canton of Zürich wants all S-Bahn trains to be accessible for people in wheelchairs. The solution the SBB has come up with is to order new trainsets with entrances at platform level. A lot of these new sets have entered service recently, and a lot more follow. However a lot of older sets are in service too, and these sets are only about 20 years old, so not ready for retirement by any means. For these sets SBB has bought new intermediate cars with low entrance, so that in each set one car will be accessible. Swapping out a car in each set however leads to a surplus of cars, and these will be formed in to push pull sets, using refurbished locomotives, so they can be used for peak hour trains over the next 20 years or so, when they will probably be retired, together with the locomotives.
It all makes good business sense.

And what you call "tricking schedules" is just plain common sense. Trying to make your operation more efficient at a lowest cost possible is not "tricking". It's something every industry does.
If you want to see obsession with shaving single minutes of schedules to optimize total performance, just have a look at the automible assembly industry...
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Old October 10th, 2011, 09:32 AM   #403
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Cancelling is not needed! Just slow'em down, like they do in Italy with hierarchized planning. If a faster train needs to pass, too bad, lower trains gotta spend time at stations idling to make room for the faster and more important trains.
One main source of delays for Italy - Switzerland trains is that in the Italian train hierarchy international trains actually come after local trains. So a Zürich - Milano EC has to make room for a delayed Como - Milano local...
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Old October 10th, 2011, 12:15 PM   #404
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Simplon tunnel has limited capacity at the moment. That's why there are so few international trains on that route also.

The biggest problem is however Trenitalia's complete disinterest in international services.
The main if not only reason is the second one. There were few EC CIS far before the Simplon fire.

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One main source of delays for Italy - Switzerland trains is that in the Italian train hierarchy international trains actually come after local trains. So a Zürich - Milano EC has to make room for a delayed Como - Milano local...
No, it's false. They are the EC CIS to cause delays to Milano-Como-Chiasso S11 suburban trains, and not viceversa. When there are no EC CIS, the S11 are on usually on time.
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Old October 10th, 2011, 12:59 PM   #405
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No, it's false. They are the EC CIS to cause delays to Milano-Como-Chiasso S11 suburban trains, and not viceversa. When there are no EC CIS, the S11 are on usually on time.
I've actually witnessed this myself. S11 train leaves late. EC waiting on adjacent track gets delayed, and send down the line afterwards. Result: a 3 minute delay becomes a 20 minute delay.

The other problem is that Trenitalia seems to insist that a train arriving with a delay in Milano must leave with the same delay...

And that Trenitalia never gave the Cisalpino trains the importance they deserved is known. I found several references to the fact that Regional trains were given priority over Cisalpino trains in Milano.

Here is one:
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"Die Cisalpino-Züge haben bei der Ein- und Ausfahrt im Bahnhof Mailand lediglich dritte Priorität. Sie müssen nicht nur den Hochgeschwindigkeitsflitzern den Vortritt lassen, sondern auch dem Regionalverkehr. Mit dem Ergebnis, dass sie selbst dann Verspätung haben, wenn sie pannenfrei unterwegs sind."
http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/meinunge...story/17717586
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Old October 10th, 2011, 03:13 PM   #406
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As far I know if the expected delay of the CIS doesn't exceed 7 minutes the S11 is delayed and kept halted in Chiasso until the CIS leaves. Sometimes the CIS doesn't manage to switch from one system to the other, delaying both itself and the S11.

In addition sometimes the S11 give way to the CIS in Albate Camerlata, waiting there for minutes and increasing the delay.
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Old October 10th, 2011, 04:23 PM   #407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
The Swiss railway management is cheap in the negative sense. "Revamped" old tracks, tricking schedules instead of focusing on performance, retrofitting trains instead of placing orders for state-of-the-art stock, single-lane "optmizd" tracks... Lot's of issues with Swiss rail management.
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Old October 10th, 2011, 07:34 PM   #408
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+1
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Old October 20th, 2011, 01:30 AM   #409
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Google "Rail" View on the Albula and Bernina lines: http://www.bluewin.ch/it/index.php/5...s/diversi/sda/
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Old October 20th, 2011, 08:28 AM   #410
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Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Google "Rail" View on the Albula and Bernina lines: http://www.bluewin.ch/it/index.php/5...s/diversi/sda/
Unfortunately not yet online... Have to wait a few months.
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Old October 21st, 2011, 01:11 PM   #411
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More pictures:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1066005...LHh_53Su4S3ZA#
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Old October 21st, 2011, 08:49 PM   #412
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I predict some unproductive evenings on Google Earth for me when those pictures go online.
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Old October 22nd, 2011, 12:41 PM   #413
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Das arme Mädchen,gaaanz aleine vorne im Wind und

Wetter.https://picasaweb.google.com/1066005...LHh_53Su4S3ZA#

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Old November 9th, 2011, 04:28 PM   #414
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IN the second video, at around 4:50, you see a Deutsche Bahn train departing with one of the carriages in a double deck style, is this a sleeping car or something?

Edit Ah, you can see it in the Part 1 'still'.
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Old November 9th, 2011, 05:06 PM   #415
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I think that's the restaurant car.
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Old November 9th, 2011, 06:43 PM   #416
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I don't see any double deck car at 4.50, in any video, but it may be one of the half-double deck sleeping car of CityNightLine (CNL). They have two levels of cabins on one side, linked by a passage on the other side at standard height. There is a stair each two cabin, and it is impossible to go from one cabin to another (except the adjacent one) without going via the intermediate deck.
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Old November 9th, 2011, 08:32 PM   #417
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I think he meant 5:40 and not 4:50.

Then it's the restaurant car of the ICE 1, that's also visible in the 1st vid. It's not a double deck car, it just has a raised roof to fit all the kitchen equipment. The 2nd row of windows are just like skylights, nothing more. It doesn't provide any panoramic views for example.
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Old November 10th, 2011, 04:26 AM   #418
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Great vids.

Zurich Hb seems like the best place to view so many different types of passenger trains in one station. Almost 60 tracks/platforms and the busiest in the world? Wow. Its a wonder how all those tracks (and trains) can fit onto an island sandwiched at the confluence of two rivers.

Any pics on the progress of the Weinbergtunnel?
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Old November 10th, 2011, 09:51 AM   #419
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Zürich HB will have 18 stub tracks and 8 through tracks in a few years (today 4 of the 8 through tracks are under construction, and there are 4 more temporary stub tracks).

It is not the busiest on the world but with 3000 trains and 300.000 passengers a day has more traffic than Milano Centrale.

For the Weinbergtunnel: www.durchmesserlinie.ch
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Old November 10th, 2011, 11:32 AM   #420
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Great vids.

Zurich Hb seems like the best place to view so many different types of passenger trains in one station.
A good place to watch trains is Othmarsingen, to the west of Zürich. At that place you not only get to see most of the passenger trains from Zürich to the west, but most freight on the Gotthard route too...
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