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Old January 5th, 2012, 10:44 AM   #481
K_
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcVD View Post
It's a pity that ICN sets could not be ordered anymore, they were certainly
the best tilting trains ever engineered.
Oh, I think Bombardier could still build them, with a few modifications to comply with the TSI norms.

Quote:
Is there some comparative information available about the reliability of the
ICN and ETR610 sets ? Thinks like faults per 100.000 km, maximum time
between scheduled maintenance operations, and the like ?
I'l have to inquire about that.

Quote:
For the time being, the services between Brussels and Zurich are a little
bit disappointing in terms of performance - although their incorporation in
the TER200 Alsace scheme since Dec 12 should make things a little bit
better. Combined advantages of a titling train set (better acceleration,
better top speed in curvy sections like in the Ardennes) would make that
service much more attractive.
I actually never travel that route anymore, preferring to go via Germany...

The problem the Intercap scheme faces is that between Metz and Strassbourg it would be convenient to use the LGV-Est. For that the trainsets would however need to be able to reach 300kph. Nobody builds 300kph tilting sets... So using tilting sets means that time gained between Brussel and Luxemburg gets lost again in France.
At the moment the time advantage of running the ECs at TER200 speeds is btw entirely lost in Basel...
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Old January 5th, 2012, 11:11 AM   #482
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The new trains will be able to run also in Germany, even if for Zuerich-Muenchen services some ICN may be converted to run also on DB network.

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Originally Posted by K_ View Post
On top of that Trenitalia is no longer making any ETR610 sets available for Switzerland services, and has trouble even keeping one of its ETR470 sets in working order. Swiss sets also consistently get vandalized if they spend even one night in Milano...
It is said that some pieces of one FFS set were stolen one night in Milan...and one can wonder these thieves were so interested in a particular device used only in a particular type of train...
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Old January 5th, 2012, 04:08 PM   #483
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Quote:
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.. Nobody builds 300kph tilting sets...
N700 Shinkansen sets tilt and reach 300 KPH. Would be nice to see those crossing the European Continent.
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Old January 5th, 2012, 04:24 PM   #484
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
Oh, I think Bombardier could still build them, with a few modifications to comply with the TSI norms.
Not sure about that at all : those sets were build by a consortium of
Swiss companies whose parts have been acquired by larger groups that
are now competitors. So re-forming the same consortium again might be
impossible today. Could Bombardier alone still build them ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
So using tilting sets means that time gained between Brussel and Luxemburg gets lost again in France.
Given that the LGV Est is not that much loaded, and that it only concerns
a short stretch at the very end of the line, I don't think RFF would object
to selling 6 paths per day timed at 250 km/h only.

Also, I don't have the track plans in front of me, but will it be possible to
enter the LGV Est near Metz in the direction of Strasbourg ? Knowing how
french people are Paris-centric, I would expect the LGV entries/exits to be
oriented towards Paris but not otherwise...
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Old January 5th, 2012, 04:38 PM   #485
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xoser_barcelona View Post
N700 Shinkansen sets tilt and reach 300 KPH. Would be nice to see those crossing the European Continent.
Indeed - japanese rolling stock on continental Europe is still a very rare sight
today. I vaguely remember electric locos in Spain, but apart from that ?
Those sets look awful, though.

But there is a big objection : it's not the right kind of tilting.

From wikipedia : N700 series trains have a maximum speed of 300 km/h
(186 mph), and tilting of up to one degree allows the trains to maintain
270 km/h (168 mph) even on 2,500 m (8,200 ft) radius curves that
previously had a maximum speed of 255 km/h (158 mph).

This is OK for reaching 300 km/h on a line that was designed for 270 only,
but will do nothing to accelerate a train on a conventional line, where
tilting angles need to be larger than that.
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Old January 5th, 2012, 05:22 PM   #486
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcVD View Post
Not sure about that at all : those sets were build by a consortium of
Swiss companies whose parts have been acquired by larger groups that
are now competitors. So re-forming the same consortium again might be
impossible today. Could Bombardier alone still build them ?
I believe that the SIG developed electromechanical tilt system (also used afaik on the Virgin Pendolinos in the UK) is now owned by Alstom. But Bombardier has it's own system.

Quote:
Also, I don't have the track plans in front of me, but will it be possible to
enter the LGV Est near Metz in the direction of Strasbourg ? Knowing how
french people are Paris-centric, I would expect the LGV entries/exits to be
oriented towards Paris but not otherwise...
It will be possible for trains to join the line at Baudrecourt in the direction of Strassbourg. Have a look here;
http://www.lgv-est.com/medias/pdf/medias1326.pdf
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Old January 5th, 2012, 06:58 PM   #487
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The ICN trainsets weren't built by Bombardier alone. Alongside the noses of each trainset, 3 names can be read: Bombardier, Alstom, Pininfarina.

Bombardier and Alstom can co-operate just fine, if there's a need for it.
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Old January 7th, 2012, 10:38 PM   #488
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Clearing the MTGN touristic line: http://www.tsr.ch/video/info/journal...e-naye-vd.html
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Old January 8th, 2012, 01:39 AM   #489
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
If there was a way to measure the degree in which a railway is socialist, I think that Trenitalia would end up being one of the more "socialist" railways in Europe, and SBB one of the least.

Now, this is not about SBB imposing their way of oding business on other countries. Notice how SBB has not problem cooperating with Austria, with Germany and with France. It's only with Italy that there are large issues. Issues exist also between Italy and all it's other neighbors. So I'd guess it's Trenitalia that needs to get its act together.
That Trenitalia can't keep enough sets of an _Italian_ build train available to keep up its' part of the bargain has nothing to do with SBB management...
Everybody is having troubles with FS. That's why ÖBB and DB decided on a colaboration for the Brenner instead of working together with the Italians. As a consequence Italy banned ÖBB/DB trains from stopping in some stations.
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Old January 8th, 2012, 04:34 PM   #490
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcVD View Post
But there is a big objection : it's not the right kind of tilting.

From wikipedia : N700 series trains have a maximum speed of 300 km/h
(186 mph), and tilting of up to one degree allows the trains to maintain
270 km/h (168 mph) even on 2,500 m (8,200 ft) radius curves that
previously had a maximum speed of 255 km/h (158 mph).
Well it would allow 160km/h instead of 155km/h ( ), but I'm pretty certain that the 1 degree maximum is because there was no need for it to be more at this time on the Shinkansen. I doubt the Japanese would have too much trouble taking the same design to 2 or 3 degrees albeit changing the body shape a little (but they'd need to do that anyway I'd assume?) and that would be starting to make a material difference.

I can't see a long term problem with developing full-tilt full high speed trains in the future.
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Old January 8th, 2012, 05:36 PM   #491
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The N700 uses active suspension for tilting, it uses the air suspension and not an active pneumatic or electrical mechanism that the Pendolino uses. This kind of tilting limits the maximum tilt to 2 degrees at most. Seeing that the N700 only has 1 degrees of tilt it shows that this technology is still limited at higher speeds. Although the newer E5 Shinkansen already has 1.5 degrees of tilt, it's becoming more, but not more then 2 degrees.

For now the industry isn't developing a full tilt high speed train, simply stating that it's not possible. And with the growing number of high speed lines opening in Europe it doesn't look like it will ever be economically viable. Why invests big money in a system that is technically very complex that might not even be needed in the long run.


ps.
The N700 is only ugly until you see it for real.
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Japan Projects & Construction
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Old January 9th, 2012, 12:41 AM   #492
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Rail & road report from the San Gottardo region.
Very very nice report! Stalvedro,Piotta,Goeschenen.... If you don't know:

http://www.gottardo-wanderweg.ch/it/...rd/escursioni/

And my favourite steamline Dampfbahn Furka-Bergstrecke:
http://kattler.dk/Furka_Bergstrecke.html

http://www.bahnbilder.ch/search?location=1257

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=305762

Thank you!
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Old January 16th, 2012, 11:54 PM   #493
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The Albulabahn, between Preda and Bergün at the end of 2011.

I haven't been in Bergün recently, the station is completely changed.




I hope the Bahnmuseum Albula will be a success.
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Old January 17th, 2012, 08:09 AM   #494
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Quote:
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I can't see a long term problem with developing full-tilt full high speed trains in the future.
But is there a need for it?
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Old January 17th, 2012, 06:06 PM   #495
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The SBB wanted to buy such trains, so you could there's a small market for it. But it's a market that I don't think will be growing in the future
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Old January 18th, 2012, 08:08 AM   #496
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The SBB wanted to buy such trains, so you could there's a small market for it. But it's a market that I don't think will be growing in the future
SBB have abandoned that idea. The reason SBB originally wanted tilting trains that went 300kph is that they wanted one type of train to be used on all their international routes. They never intended to run at 300kph with tilt. Nobody however offered them one, so the idea was schelved. SBB is actually now looking for 249 kph trains, as they will be a lot cheaper, and intends to just keep using French TGVs on the routes to France.

There really is not much point in having active tilt at 300kph, as you won't be able to use it anywhere anyway. Tilting doesn't really permit a train to run faster. What determines how fast a train can go on a curve depends solely on how much cant deficiency the train and the infrastructure allows. The tilting is only used for the comfort of the passengers...
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Old January 23rd, 2012, 05:58 PM   #497
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Clearing some railways near Andermat (Gotthard):

http://la1.rsi.ch/home/networks/la1/...low#tabEdition
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Old January 24th, 2012, 12:30 AM   #498
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Clearing some railways near Andermat (Gotthard):

http://la1.rsi.ch/home/networks/la1/...low#tabEdition
DAAAAAAAAAAAAMN...

thanks for video
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Old January 24th, 2012, 08:50 AM   #499
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DAAAAAAAAAAAAMN...

thanks for video
I have sometimes wondered how well USA-style rotary snowplows would work in the Swiss Alps.



Mike
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Old January 24th, 2012, 10:28 AM   #500
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I have sometimes wondered how well USA-style rotary snowplows would work in the Swiss Alps.
RhB has a still working steam powered rotary snowplow. Probably one of the few remaining worldwide.
image hosted on flickr

Dampfschleuder by rhaetischebahn, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Dampffahrten by rhaetischebahn, on Flickr

Nowadays it's mostly these snowthrowers that keep the Berninabahn open in winter:
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