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Old March 5th, 2012, 12:00 AM   #541
Sopomon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaud View Post
I've never seen a cow wondering around a railway line in an unfenced enclosure, and I'm sure that does not happen, at least not around anything faster than a cog railway
I can and does happen, I can assure you.
In Australia, kangaroos are the problem, you sometimes see trains with smashed-up front (bumpers?) because of them.
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Old March 5th, 2012, 08:51 AM   #542
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Estonia has plenty of wildlife but collisions between wild animals and trains are hardly an issue. The largest animal that you can hit is a moose and even that doesn't do that much damage to a train. The front of the train is designed to withstand a crash into a truck, after all.
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Old March 5th, 2012, 09:13 AM   #543
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To be fair, here in Holland were Suburbanist also lives all railway lines have fences at places where there is a road or even a footpath close-by. Although many railway are are already segregated by water, even if it's just a small ditch with water. You really don't pay any notice to it until you see foreign lines like the one in the picture where you can just walk onto the tracks.
On of the typicaly aspects of Swiss countryside is actually the general absence of fences. Fields are as a rule not fenced in. Farmers will put up temporary wire fences when grazing cattle, but generally the countryside is wide open.
you will find fences next to railways in Urban areas, but it will be more likely the owners of land next to the railway that have those up. And near to level crossings fences will make it hard to get around the barriers when closed.
But in the countryside railways are not fenced in. There really is no need for that.

Last edited by K_; March 5th, 2012 at 09:19 AM.
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Old March 5th, 2012, 09:19 AM   #544
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Quote:
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I've never seen a cow wondering around a railway line in an unfenced enclosure, and I'm sure that does not happen, at least not around anything faster than a cog railway
An RBS train hit a horse once, when I was still regularly commuting on their network. I was in the next train after the one that hit the poor animal, and ended up just walking the distance to the next station where trains were running normally. It was a pleasant summer evening, so the hardship endured buy us was limited...

I assume the owner of the horse got a hefty bill for the damage and delays his property caused. It's not the job of the railway to keep large animals of its tracks. That's the responsibility of the owner of the animals.
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Old March 5th, 2012, 09:29 AM   #545
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Birds can easily fly.
Oh, rly? Thank you captain obvious!

So birds can fly into a train even there is a fence. OMG trains should run in a cage.
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Land animals should use wildlife tunnels and the like. Collisions between animals and trains should be avoided. Even a small mammal hitting a train creates disturbance on the schedule, and might damage the front of the train.

God forbids a train collides with a cow!
This is hardly a problem. It could be for HSR and it could be solved by wildlife crossings there. It would cost billions to build wildlife crossings for every rail track in whole Switzerland.
We should solve real problems first before we go for artificial problems.

We don't fence normal roads either, only motorways.
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Old March 5th, 2012, 11:21 AM   #546
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please, look at pictures of actual accidents

a cow is turned into hamburger on sight
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Old March 5th, 2012, 02:07 PM   #547
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Highways must be fenced or else very serious accidents could happen with a 120km/h 1.200kg car hitting a moose or a cow. And also to prevent illegal pedestrian crossings on the controlled-access highway.

Pedestrians can't properly judge the time they have to cross a highway with an incoming car at 120km/h, they can't judge the time of a train either. I think low fences should be mandatory. They don't cost much, though the cheapest one will not survive winters and need annual replacement in CH.
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Old March 5th, 2012, 02:47 PM   #548
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and a highway is relevant here how?

exactly what part of the front end of a T-R-A-I-N would be more than bruised by a cow?

as for humans who wonder into the way, they kinda got it coming
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Old March 5th, 2012, 03:27 PM   #549
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Highways must be fenced or else very serious accidents could happen with a 120km/h 1.200kg car hitting a moose or a cow. And also to prevent illegal pedestrian crossings on the controlled-access highway.
Only 80 km/h is allowed on Swiss highways. Drivers must be careful at any time on a highway. It will never happen that all Swiss highways get fences.

As for motorways, they already have fences, and new motorways have wild crossings too. Also old motoways have been upgraded with crossings along with major projects (A1 near Burgdorf for example http://maps.google.ch/?ll=47.062755,...33023&t=h&z=16)

It would simply be to expensive to do this for all highways and railtracks, so it's only done on HSR and motorways.
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Old March 5th, 2012, 04:49 PM   #550
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I remember the time an ICE around Würzburg ran into a herd of sheep at a tunnel entrance. It was quite a mess, DB sued the shepherd, and the head of DB said it would be too expensive to fence in all HSR. Seriously, I do not believe a shepherd has the duty to ensure that multi-billion companies can save the investment to create some minor obstacles around at least HSR to make both humans and animals think twice about clambering on the tracks.
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Old March 5th, 2012, 04:50 PM   #551
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well of course HSR is different, but switzerland has none unless you count the 200 kph section between bern-olten and the _tunnel_ sections

it is impossible to fence every km of 120-160 kph rail lines
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Old March 5th, 2012, 06:58 PM   #552
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Hirsch
I remember the time an ICE around Würzburg ran into a herd of sheep at a tunnel entrance. It was quite a mess, DB sued the shepherd, and the head of DB said it would be too expensive to fence in all HSR. Seriously, I do not believe a shepherd has the duty to ensure that multi-billion companies can save the investment to create some minor obstacles around at least HSR to make both humans and animals think twice about clambering on the tracks.
I would assume that a shepherd is responsible for his flock. It's not because DB has deeper pockets that animal owners can shirk their responsibilities.
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Old March 5th, 2012, 10:31 PM   #553
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What is wrong with asking traffic operators to take some precautions to avoid accidents and loss of life? According to your logic, if a playground is next to a road, it is unnecessary for the municpality to build a fence around the playground, as the parents are legally responsible for their children, not the municpality.
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Old March 6th, 2012, 04:26 AM   #554
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To be fair to the Swiss, uses and costumes about animal fencing differ a lot in the Alps from Southern Europe areas. But that shouldn't matter: railways with fast traffic should always be physically segregated with fences.
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Old March 6th, 2012, 08:15 AM   #555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Hirsch View Post
What is wrong with asking traffic operators to take some precautions to avoid accidents and loss of life? According to your logic, if a playground is next to a road, it is unnecessary for the municpality to build a fence around the playground, as the parents are legally responsible for their children, not the municpality.
Erm, by your logic, the fence must be around the road, not the playground.

Make up your mind please.
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Old March 6th, 2012, 09:15 AM   #556
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Quote:
Originally Posted by earthJoker

Erm, by your logic, the fence must be around the road, not the playground.

Make up your mind please.
It would be great to have urban roadways fenced so pedestrian can only cross at designated crossings. Same reasoning for railways.
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Old March 6th, 2012, 10:16 AM   #557
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Hirsch View Post
What is wrong with asking traffic operators to take some precautions to avoid accidents and loss of life? According to your logic, if a playground is next to a road, it is unnecessary for the municpality to build a fence around the playground, as the parents are legally responsible for their children, not the municpality.
Around where I live there are usually no fences around playgrounds either, as indeed, parents are supposed to learn their children to watch out for traffic.
(Edit, and of course drivers in residential areas are supposed to watch out for children)
In Switzerland children are expected to be able to walk to school by themselves from a very early age.

Last edited by K_; March 6th, 2012 at 11:58 AM.
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Old March 6th, 2012, 10:19 AM   #558
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It would be great to have urban roadways fenced so pedestrian can only cross at designated crossings. Same reasoning for railways.
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Old March 6th, 2012, 01:24 PM   #559
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In Switzerland children are expected to be able to walk to school by themselves from a very early age.
Well not everyone prefers self-responsibility as we do. As you see some people prefer to life in a nanny state where roads are fenced and people life in anti-septic bubbles.
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Old March 6th, 2012, 04:37 PM   #560
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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
It would be great to have urban roadways fenced so pedestrian can only cross at designated crossings. Same reasoning for railways.
Maybe state can just educate pedestrians, and than fine people for crossing in wrong places? That would be more rewarding, that fencing everything
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