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Old March 6th, 2012, 05:36 PM   #561
Baron Hirsch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by earthJoker View Post
Well not everyone prefers self-responsibility as we do. As you see some people prefer to life in a nanny state where roads are fenced and people life in anti-septic bubbles.
I really get a kick out of you people. You should visit Istanbul. People walk or picnick on the motorways, pedestrians jump onto the road without looking, stray dogs attack cars or motorbikes, oneway streets are converted into twoway streets at the discretion of the drivers, and when for five minutes a day there is no traffic jam people speed like crazy. Further in the countryside, government railways are at present trying to educate village and slum kids that throwing rocks at passing trains should not be their favorite passtime.
While I am far from saying that this is a perfect world, what I am trying to say is that in the end the fact that hwile accidnets certainly happen alot, the fact that not even more happens is that in the end people allow for other's mistakes regardless of the fact of whose fault it is. If in this country people would think, "well that pedestrian has failed his self-responsibility test and thus I do not have to make an effort to avoid hitting him or her," or "that sheep herd wandered onto my tracks without asking for a written permission, so I will not hit the train's emergency brake," then we would be in a fine fix. But I am sure because everybody is so well educated in Zurich you do not have to worry about that.
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Old March 6th, 2012, 08:54 PM   #562
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Maybe in your country, but in Belgium (and not only here) everyone who builds anything open to the public (like a public playground), is responsible for accidents that happen there, unless he can prove he has done everything reasonably possible to avoid accidents.

If you build a playground next to a busy road or something else that can cause danger, you better put a big fence or you can start calling your lawyer when something happens.
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Old March 6th, 2012, 09:09 PM   #563
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It would be great to have urban roadways fenced so pedestrian can only cross at designated crossings. Same reasoning for railways.
They often have these in Korea, they are awful, people hop over them to take shortcuts or walk on the wrong side of them until there is a gap. I bet if you watch any fence along an urban road long enough, someone will hop over it.
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Old March 6th, 2012, 09:19 PM   #564
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Hirsch View Post
I really get a kick out of you people. You should visit Istanbul. People walk or picnick on the motorways, pedestrians jump onto the road without looking, stray dogs attack cars or motorbikes, oneway streets are converted into twoway streets at the discretion of the drivers, and when for five minutes a day there is no traffic jam people speed like crazy. Further in the countryside, government railways are at present trying to educate village and slum kids that throwing rocks at passing trains should not be their favorite passtime.
While I am far from saying that this is a perfect world, what I am trying to say is that in the end the fact that hwile accidnets certainly happen alot, the fact that not even more happens is that in the end people allow for other's mistakes regardless of the fact of whose fault it is. If in this country people would think, "well that pedestrian has failed his self-responsibility test and thus I do not have to make an effort to avoid hitting him or her," or "that sheep herd wandered onto my tracks without asking for a written permission, so I will not hit the train's emergency brake," then we would be in a fine fix. But I am sure because everybody is so well educated in Zurich you do not have to worry about that.
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God damn you Walter! You ******' *******! Everything's a ******' travesty with you, man! And what was all that shit about Istanbul? What the ****, has anything got to do with Istanbul? What the **** are you talking about?
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Old March 7th, 2012, 03:45 AM   #565
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Hirsch View Post
I really get a kick out of you people. You should visit Istanbul. People walk or picnick on the motorways, pedestrians jump onto the road without looking, stray dogs attack cars or motorbikes, oneway streets are converted into twoway streets at the discretion of the drivers, and when for five minutes a day there is no traffic jam people speed like crazy. Further in the countryside, government railways are at present trying to educate village and slum kids that throwing rocks at passing trains should not be their favorite passtime.
While I am far from saying that this is a perfect world, what I am trying to say is that in the end the fact that hwile accidnets certainly happen alot, the fact that not even more happens is that in the end people allow for other's mistakes regardless of the fact of whose fault it is. If in this country people would think, "well that pedestrian has failed his self-responsibility test and thus I do not have to make an effort to avoid hitting him or her," or "that sheep herd wandered onto my tracks without asking for a written permission, so I will not hit the train's emergency brake," then we would be in a fine fix. But I am sure because everybody is so well educated in Zurich you do not have to worry about that.
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Old March 7th, 2012, 03:59 AM   #566
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Well whatever, it depends on the situation and if a solution is practical(not just ideal). In my town the railroad tracks actually are fenced for about a mile.

Also if Turkish punks are throwing rocks at the train they have these things called ghetto bars to protect windows. In Boston the T commuter rail locomotives have/had them to repel bricks thrown or swung from ropes at the train.
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Old March 7th, 2012, 07:47 AM   #567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Hirsch View Post
While I am far from saying that this is a perfect world, what I am trying to say is that in the end the fact that hwile accidnets certainly happen alot, the fact that not even more happens is that in the end people allow for other's mistakes regardless of the fact of whose fault it is.
Indeed, that is why everybody should watch out for everybody. It's not just pedestrians that need to watch out for cars, cars must watch out for pedestrians too. That's a well established principle everywhere in the civilized world.
Kids in Switzerland learn to make eye contact with car drivers before crossing a street, car drivers learn that they must always be prepared to stop when in a residential area.
In the Netherlands they removed all road signs and markings, most sidewalks and pedestrian crossings in a town, and as a result got less accidents, and less congestion...
The world does not need more fences.
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Old March 7th, 2012, 07:48 AM   #568
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Also if Turkish punks are throwing rocks at the train they have these things called ghetto bars to protect windows. In Boston the T commuter rail locomotives have/had them to repel bricks thrown or swung from ropes at the train.
You should put the punks behind bars, not the trains.
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Old March 7th, 2012, 07:58 AM   #569
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Quote:
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Well whatever, it depends on the situation and if a solution is practical(not just ideal). In my town the railroad tracks actually are fenced for about a mile.
Obviously rail tracks in urban areas are for the most part fenced, except for some cases such as trains that run on streets like TPC in Aigle or Martigny or the LEB in Lausanne (which is going to be susbstituted by a tunnel). We're only talking about the countryside in here.

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Originally Posted by The Dude
God damn you Walter! You ******' *******! Everything's a ******' travesty with you, man! And what was all that shit about Istanbul? What the ****, has anything got to do with Istanbul? What the **** are you talking about?
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Old March 11th, 2012, 08:44 PM   #570
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View over Zurich. On the right side the new cross-city rail link "Durchmesserlinie" from Alstetten to Oerlikon is under construction.



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Old March 15th, 2012, 05:10 AM   #571
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Very interesting video on technical challenges and building methods of Tieflegung Zentralbahn project in Luzern ( in German ):



Project map and some pictures, all from official site where you can find much more information: Ausbau Zentralbahn













More pictures here

Opening date of a new line: 12th of November 2012, Monday

Opening of a new underground station Luzern Allmend/Messe: 9th of December 2012, with the annual schedule change
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Old March 15th, 2012, 05:44 AM   #572
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A shame they aren't using ballastless tracks (slabs) in a brand new underground railway.
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Old March 15th, 2012, 05:58 AM   #573
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Yeah, such a HUGE shame... I'm sure you know better what's the most cost effective technique on this particular section. You seriously have a problem! Swiss have a great tendency not to run overbudget on infrastructure projects. Other countries should learn from them how not to build shiny and unnecesary stuff just for sake of having it.
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Old March 15th, 2012, 08:05 AM   #574
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I'm for the approach of built first, then, later, decide what to do with the tracks as in services using them.

They could use this opportunity to reduce travel times around Luzern by 35-50 sec. per train
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Old March 15th, 2012, 09:15 AM   #575
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I don't think they could go faster with 1m gauges anyway.
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Old March 15th, 2012, 09:26 AM   #576
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I'm for the approach of built first, then, later, decide what to do with the tracks as in services using them.
the Swiss generally frown upon bankrupting the country.

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They could use this opportunity to reduce travel times around Luzern by 35-50 sec. per train
They will reduce travel times, and will increase frequencies. They already know exactly what they are going to do with this line, and what they will do with in in the near future...
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Old March 15th, 2012, 10:42 AM   #577
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A cool video about the CEVA in Geneva (french), available in HQ



Some of the real estate projects are now being approved (see article in Tribune de Genčve 12th march) such as this one around the future train station of Chęne Bourg





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Old March 15th, 2012, 01:17 PM   #578
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The CEVA project is a very intersting one. One thing is not entirely clear to me however. Will it be possible to run trains directly from the Airport onwards to Annemasse and beyond? I would think that especially during the winter such trains would be quite convenient.

Another fascinating possibility would be to reactivate Evian - St. Gingolph and run trains Geneva - Evian - Valais...
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Old March 15th, 2012, 02:46 PM   #579
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Not in principle, as explained in the video (min 8->) trains coming from Annemasse will directly pass through Genčve Cornavin and beyond, and the lines to the airport and Bellegarde will be served by connecting trains in Genčve whose schedules will be optimized, which in Switzerland means connecting trains with 5min waiting times more or less. Anyway there's lots of trains already connecting the airport with cornavin.
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Old March 15th, 2012, 02:51 PM   #580
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Not in principle, as explained in the video (min 8->) trains coming from Annemasse will directly pass through Genčve Cornavin and beyond, and the lines to the airport and Bellegarde will be served by connecting trains in Genčve whose schedules will be optimized, which in Switzerland means connecting trains with 5min waiting times more or less.
I know that the Swiss are masters at optimizing connections (after all, I live there :-).

What I had in mind were more like seasonal extras (as are also run elsewhere for the benefit of tourists), as not having to get of the train and drag your skis across Geneva main station only minutes after you've boarded the train at the airport has it's advantages.
For that purpose what would be needed is making sure that the infrastructure allows it.
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