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Old April 9th, 2012, 04:10 PM   #601
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True, Switzerland has 4 national languages. Making a song in 4 languages is very hard, and you have got to be careful in the way you write it. If the first verse would be in German, the people from the French part of Switzerland might get upset because "German was picked first!" Furthermore, 4 languages requires someone who can speak and sing in the 4 languages - I don't know if Selena and Hanspeter can do that.

Then there's a little bit of marketing gimmick: this campaign is going across the globe (it's linked here on SSC, I've shared it on Facebook, other forums and with friends myself) and by using English as the language in the song it is easier to understand for people who aren't from Switzerland. The song itself becomes more recognizable because you can hear what it's about. And because you can understand what the song is about, you just might get the impression that the Swiss like to welcome you into their country - which is reinforced by the beautiful scenery that's visible throughout the video.
I agree with your analysis about the language, but concerning the video, I found her very focused on the Swiss-German. It is clear that the rail network is much better developed there, which I deeply regret.
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Old April 9th, 2012, 04:45 PM   #602
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Is that really so? I am not a very frequent visitor to Romandie, but from what I have noticed the rail network there isn't noticeably inferior. It's just that the German speaking part of the country is at least twice as big as the French speaking part.
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Old April 9th, 2012, 05:38 PM   #603
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Is that really so? I am not a very frequent visitor to Romandie, but from what I have noticed the rail network there isn't noticeably inferior. It's just that the German speaking part of the country is at least twice as big as the French speaking part.
Yes, to a certain extent. In fact, for example by comparing the number of departure for regional trains (RER / S-Bahn) between the cities of Lausanne (Suisse-Romande) and Bern (Swiss German), Bern has four times more than Lausanne. (absolute numbers/day: Lsne 175, Be 750).

This situation is not directly due to "racism" against Romands by the Alemanni, it is primarily due to the different economic conditions between the two regions when the Germanic built their network of regional trains (90's), and lack of national solidarity in times of economic crisis in a region of the country (federalism).

Now the economic sitution in Suisse-Romande is very good, but the rail network in this part of the country is clearly the weak point of public transport in general in Lausanne and Geneva. Projects like the CEVA in Geneva, the major changes in stations of Lausanne, Renens, Geneva-Cornavin and the addition of extra lanes would again late in 2020, to the tune of several billion CHF. This time, our region is ready to present projects and to pay a portion of its funding, and even, as Zurich at that time, to advance money.

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Old April 9th, 2012, 09:10 PM   #604
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I'd say its hardly surprising that a train network covering a whole circle around the city (Bern) has more S-Bahn trains than one covering only a semi-circle (Lausanne, where Lac Léman covers the other half circle).
Of course that's not the only explanation but might play a role as well.
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Old April 9th, 2012, 09:35 PM   #605
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I'd say its hardly surprising that a train network covering a whole circle around the city (Bern) has more S-Bahn trains than one covering only a semi-circle (Lausanne, where Lac Léman covers the other half circle).
Of course that's not the only explanation but might play a role as well.


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Old April 10th, 2012, 12:07 AM   #606
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What do you want to say with that map, it has nothing to do with the S-Bahn/RER networks around both cities. It remains a fact that you can recognize 10 different railway lines going from Bern and just 4 main railway lines from Lausanne. You cannot take the total number of trains to compare both networks. You can only compare both networks by the frequency of the trains on every line. Then you see that the Bern network still has a significantly higher overall frequency, but the difference isn't as big then when you compare it by total size.

I would recognize 2 factors why the Bern S-Bahn .

First off, Bern is the national capital. Because it's closer to the people who decide it gets more attention and therefor more investments then cities with a similar size in other parts of the country. With Bern not being the biggest or the economic main city makes this even more noticeable.

The 2nd factor is the BLS. It's a strong regional railway company that already had a good network around Bern. The SBB is a good company that already operates several S-Bahn systems in the country. But a local company can give just that extra bit more to a network around a city with the size of Bern. Especially since the Bern S-Bahn has become the heart of the BLS network after the long distance passenger operations where transferred to the SBB.


If the Lausanne/Geneve region wants to improve the RER services around the 2 cities they need to come together with all the local and regional stakeholders to form a more solid base for an RER network 2.0 around Lac Leman.
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Old April 10th, 2012, 12:09 AM   #607
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The most neglected canton in CH in terms of transportation is Graubünden IMO.

Barely any fast railway (an no rail at all on its easternmost parts) but also no highway. And no rail to Ticino (and a so-so highway).
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Old April 10th, 2012, 12:55 AM   #608
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...
I do not pretend to compare the two networks with this picture, but just show that the explanations of the semi circle is not correct. (The Bern network is incomplete, of course. The image is intended by its author to show ferred networks leading to Lausanne)

Bern deserves its S-Bahn, the comparative number of the starting S-Bahn just illustrates the lack of Lausanne. Otherwise, it is only controversy: I see no valid argument that it would be normal that a city is favored over other cities economically and demographically comparable.

The challenge is primarily the part of use of public transport compared to private motorized transport, whose negative effects are well documented. Whether one lives in the federal capital or "provincial city", one has the right to quality mobility. I hope that in Switzerland the importance of an S-Bahn network longer justified by its public utility than the title of Capital of a political federation.

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Old April 10th, 2012, 08:22 AM   #609
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The most neglected canton in CH in terms of transportation is Graubünden IMO.

Barely any fast railway (an no rail at all on its easternmost parts) but also no highway. And no rail to Ticino (and a so-so highway).
It also happens to be one of the most wonderful places to travel around in, and lets keep it that way.
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Old April 10th, 2012, 08:28 AM   #610
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Yes, to a certain extent. In fact, for example by comparing the number of departure for regional trains (RER / S-Bahn) between the cities of Lausanne (Suisse-Romande) and Bern (Swiss German), Bern has four times more than Lausanne. (absolute numbers/day: Lsne 175, Be 750).
Regional trains are the competence of the cantons, so if one canton has more regional public transit than another, blame the canton.

That said, I think the differences are to a large extent due to geography. The "Arc Lemanique" is basically a linear agglomeration, and public transit along it's main axis is quite good, and improving continuously. And it's probably even more efficient than the Zürich or Bern S-Bahn...
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Old April 10th, 2012, 08:47 AM   #611
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The most neglected canton in CH in terms of transportation is Graubünden IMO.

Barely any fast railway (an no rail at all on its easternmost parts) but also no highway. And no rail to Ticino (and a so-so highway).
It's also the least dense canton with only 26 inhabitants per km^2.

Also there are highways to the eastern part where one is open all year (Julier).
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Old April 10th, 2012, 09:36 AM   #612
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Quote:
Originally Posted by General Electric View Post
I do not pretend to compare the two networks with this picture, but just show that the explanations of the semi circle is not correct. (The Bern network is incomplete, of course. The image is intended by its author to show ferred networks leading to Lausanne)
But the map doesn't show the 10 routes of Bern compared to the 4 out of Lausanne. Which can partly be explained by the lake, but also by the fact that Bern is surrounded by more towns and cities. The population density around the city is simply higher.

Quote:
Bern deserves its S-Bahn, the comparative number of the starting S-Bahn just illustrates the lack of Lausanne. Otherwise, it is only controversy: I see no valid argument that it would be normal that a city is favored over other cities economically and demographically comparable.
There is no valid argument, but there will always be differences. Whether it be political, geographical or economical differences, even small factors can mean a world of difference.
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Old April 10th, 2012, 12:52 PM   #613
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Also there are highways to the eastern part where one is open all year (Julier).
Oh, I was referring to "autostrade"
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Old April 10th, 2012, 02:35 PM   #614
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So you mean: "controlled-access highway" you may refer to it as:
Autobahn, autopista, autoroute, autostrada, autosnelweg, freeway, motorway
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorway
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Old April 10th, 2012, 02:45 PM   #615
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So you mean: "controlled-access highway" you may refer to it as:
Autobahn, autopista, autoroute, autostrada, autosnelweg, freeway, motorway
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorway
Poit is: there is no very fast connection between Scuol or St. Moritz and Zurich/Bern/Luzern etc.
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Old April 10th, 2012, 03:42 PM   #616
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There are many villages with 2000-5000 people who don't have very fast connections to Zürich, Bern ect.

If you go/live in the middle of the alps close to 2000m you shouldn't expect to have the same accessibility as living in the flat.
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Old April 10th, 2012, 04:58 PM   #617
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I thank the gods that there is just 1 highway in Graubunden.

It's a big part of the touristic attraction of the area, it's not as spoiled as some other valleys in the alps. And as a bonus you have the Rhätische Bahn which only enhances the landscape.
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Old April 10th, 2012, 05:07 PM   #618
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It is a very hypocrite attitude to think some region is "cool" because it lacks infrastructure when you have or want all that infrastructure at your doorstep. It reminds of people in London or New York protesting against plans by some African country to build new cities or roads or safaris in "pristine untouched rainforest" as if certain regions of the World or the country should be cursed with a prohibition of development.

Graundünden has a lot of cross-skiing potential and could be a major tourist destination. Not to the level of the Lauterbrunnen valley but certainly like Valais or some valleys in neighboring Italy.

Instead of that, it is an stagnated region with declining population and no major resort/tourist/holiday residence development* planned.

A fast (not necessarily high-speed) Rems-St. Moritz - Chiavenna - Belizona fast railway, with many viaducts and some long-ish tunnels, would help a lot to spur development and growth in the area

*off-topic: Swiss law is very strict in not allowing foreigners owning real estate in CH if they don't live there, but that is another story.
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Old April 10th, 2012, 05:13 PM   #619
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But the map doesn't show the 10 routes of Bern compared to the 4 out of Lausanne. Which can partly be explained by the lake, but also by the fact that Bern is surrounded by more towns and cities. The population density around the city is simply higher.

There is no valid argument, but there will always be differences. Whether it be political, geographical or economical differences, even small factors can mean a world of difference.
The ratio of S-Bahn in Bern compared to Lausanne takes into account the difference in the number of inhabitants of two regions, of course.

WTF? I don't say "Lausanne is bigger, have more cities surrounded". All I meant is that in proportion to the number of inhabitants, the Lake Geneva region has less S-Bahn than the German-Swiss cities. This is indisputable.

Another way to illustrate the carrences the Lake Geneva region's about S-Bahn is look at the hourly rate per line: the maximum output in Lausanne is the half-hour...

I do agree also that the Lake Geneva region has its responsibility in the current situation, even if the political promises of the federal vote "Rail 2000", passed at the federal level in 1988, were never held, which has also seriously compromised the development of the S-Bahn Lake Geneva, as the entire east-west axis, while in the East it has been pre-finance the work needed, unlike in the west most affected by the economic crisis.


EDIT: Just for info.: According to Wikipedia, the agglomeration of Bern has 352,000 inhabitants, 336,000 for Lausanne ...
Wikipedia, Bern: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bern
Wikipedia Lausanne: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lausanne

Last edited by General Electric; April 10th, 2012 at 05:54 PM.
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Old April 10th, 2012, 05:24 PM   #620
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Luckily the Canton Graubunden doesn't agree with you. They don't want to turn this beautiful part of the alps into an instant tourism area without any local identity.

The addition of the Albulabahn and the Berninabahn to the list of UNESCO World Heritage Sites, which was actively promoted by the Canton is also a clear statement that Graubunden itself does not want to change.
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