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Old April 14th, 2012, 04:37 PM   #701
chornedsnorkack
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Near me, there is a railway where trains with matching stopping times depart at
5:19
6:19
9:19
12:19
15:19
17:19
19:19
22:19
This kind of regularity does help both with schedule making and with memorizing the schedule by infrequent users.
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Old April 14th, 2012, 06:15 PM   #702
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Nobody needs to MEMORIZE schedules when everybody has smartphones or computers to keep their schedules and check things out.
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Old April 14th, 2012, 06:36 PM   #703
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Quote:
Nobody needs to MEMORIZE schedules when everybody has smartphones or computers to keep their schedules and check things out.
Ever tried to explain to your grandmother how a smartphone works?
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Old April 14th, 2012, 08:09 PM   #704
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Originally Posted by earthJoker View Post
There are only few lines within Switzerland with such a potential. And it would be necessary to have dedicated lines for those. I am actually in favor of building 2 of those lines, a (Lyon)-Geneva-Laussane-Bern-Zürich-(Munich) and a Basel-Zürich-Lugano-Milano one. With an possibilty to run trains directly between Bern and Basel.
A new Geneva-Lausanne line would be useful and another one on the Basel-Bern-Zürich urgent, but I don't see that happening quickly given today's government.

A north-south line would be nice for freight traffic but useless if the Italians (and partially Germans) continue doing nothing.
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Old April 14th, 2012, 08:13 PM   #705
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The end is approaching...

[IMG]http://i42.************/28isq5g.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i39.************/msoqi0.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i40.************/2h52lif.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i42.************/m8eicl.jpg[/IMG]
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Old April 14th, 2012, 08:48 PM   #706
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist
Nobody needs to MEMORIZE schedules when everybody has smartphones or computers to keep their schedules and check things out.
I don't want to have to rely on a smartphone or a computer while I'm travelling. I simply memorize the times of my trains, and I can add +30 or +60 is needed. Easy-peasy.
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Old April 15th, 2012, 01:37 AM   #707
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Smartphone penetration “close to 50 per cent”

According to this recent news article on SwissInfo:

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss_ne...l?cid=32324622

Sounds like there's still some way to go before all rail passengers will be relying on their phones for their time tables.
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Old April 15th, 2012, 01:52 AM   #708
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Sounds like there's still some way to go before all rail passengers will be relying on their phones for their time tables.
What if you consider people with access to any phone and any computer, so that they could still send an SMS and get the next departing trains on their phones or access a website??
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Old April 15th, 2012, 02:20 AM   #709
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What if you consider people with access to any phone and any computer, so that they could still send an SMS and get the next departing trains on their phones or access a website??
Yeah. Or you could make timetables that are simple and easy to remember and memorize. Keep things simple. Just because you CAN make more complicated timetables as more people have the means to access that information, doesn't mean you SHOULD. We as humans have grown up with, and have organised our lives around the 24 hours a day, 60 minutes per hour system, so it only makes sense that our transport system works around that too.
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Old April 15th, 2012, 07:59 AM   #710
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Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
A new Geneva-Lausanne line would be useful and another one on the Basel-Bern-Zürich urgent, but I don't see that happening quickly given today's government.
Where would you build a new Geneva - Lausanne line? Right now the medium term plan is to bring it to four tracks throughout. The line is quite flat and does not have any tight curves, which means that increasing the speed to 200 kph would be possible too.
But as always, this has to be considered in the context of the whole system. And right now what the customers seem to want is that the priority should be given to more train, not necessarily faster trains. Don't forget that going from a 30 minute to a 15 minute interval is equivalent to cutting about 10 minutes from total trip times.

Building a new line from Olten to Zürich so that Bern - Zürich can be done at high speed throughout is put forward regularly, but the problem is that this would be very expensive, and it is doubtful that the utility would be sufficient to justify building it. After all, current trip times on Bern Zürich are already under an hour. Do you really want to encourage even more long distance commuting?

And yes, the Swiss will not throw unlimited amounts of money at infrastructure, and that is , in my opinion, a very good thing.
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Old April 15th, 2012, 08:31 AM   #711
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StuZealand View Post
According to this recent news article on SwissInfo:

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss_ne...l?cid=32324622

Sounds like there's still some way to go before all rail passengers will be relying on their phones for their time tables.
And that is mostly because they don't have to. I know for example that no matter where I'm headed in Switzerland, I have to be at the station at xx:00 or xx:30, and no matter where I'm headed in Germany I just have to be there at xx:00...

So yes, you don't bother with schedules then.
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Old April 15th, 2012, 11:48 AM   #712
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And that is mostly because they don't have to. I know for example that no matter where I'm headed in Switzerland, I have to be at the station at xx:00 or xx:30,

Hmm.

That only applies to full ITF-hubs, where trains meet at around .00 and/or .30. For example at Zurich or Bern.

But you can't rely on the .00/.30 departures at *all* stations....not even for all hub-stations (think of Lausanne or Luzern).


In Switzerland you can rely on regular (hourly, often half-hourly) departure times anywhere, but not necessarily at .00 and/or .30....


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Old April 15th, 2012, 12:43 PM   #713
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The end is approaching...
castione- line?
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Old April 15th, 2012, 01:02 PM   #714
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There are some weak points in the Swiss train network and few of them will be addressed by currently ongoing large projects (Gotthard base tunnel, CEVA in Geneva etc), but overall the system is one of the best in the world and there is no particular need to throw money at more giant projects. What I would appreciate more is an accelerated renewal of rolling stock. I commute to work every morning on Basel-Rheinfelden line and most IR trains are 30-40 years old with few clearly being in the last stages of their useful lives...

By the way this wikipedia article (in German) gives a fairly good overview of all railway/tram projects currently underway in Switzerland or in advanced stages of planning: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schweiz...enbahnprojekte
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Old April 15th, 2012, 01:23 PM   #715
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Originally Posted by gramercy View Post
castione- line?
Yes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrovia_Mesolcinese (Wikipedia in other languages is more complete)

The federal concession will expire on 31 December 2013, the last trains will run probably until it snows (there aren't snowploughs on the line).
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Old April 15th, 2012, 01:27 PM   #716
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Don't forget that going from a 30 minute to a 15 minute interval is equivalent to cutting about 10 minutes from total trip times.
This is only true if you assume people would not check timetables before travelling. Which is a dumb thing to go. Only when service frequency is like a high-performance subway line (one train every 4 minutes or less) one could really count on going to a station without bothering with the timetable.

Unless one has time to waste and wants to do so, nobody would just head to the station and wait the next every-30-min train without being sure, before leaving their house/office/wherever the actual departure time.

Quote:
Building a new line from Olten to Zürich so that Bern - Zürich can be done at high speed throughout is put forward regularly, but the problem is that this would be very expensive, and it is doubtful that the utility would be sufficient to justify building it. After all, current trip times on Bern Zürich are already under an hour. Do you really want to encourage even more long distance commuting?
The idea of not building some transportation infrastructure of whatever mode (rail, road, air) to compel people not to commute longer is social engineering of the worst type. The role of transportation should be always to INCREASE throughput and volumes of people/goods transported, not to reduce them. Unless you are one of those localists who think fast transportation is a sin that disconnects people from their immediate surroundings.
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Old April 15th, 2012, 01:44 PM   #717
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All this talk about social engineering is a nonsense. Simply put a new line between Olten and Zurich would cost a lot and at this time is not really needed. Money doesn't actually grow on trees and in my opinion there are better uses for it...
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Old April 15th, 2012, 02:49 PM   #718
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Originally Posted by nachalnik View Post
Hmm.

That only applies to full ITF-hubs, where trains meet at around .00 and/or .30. For example at Zurich or Bern.

But you can't rely on the .00/.30 departures at *all* stations....not even for all hub-stations (think of Lausanne or Luzern).
Lausanne will become a .00/.30 hub soon, and Luzern will too, eventually.
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Old April 15th, 2012, 02:59 PM   #719
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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
This is only true if you assume people would not check timetables before travelling. Which is a dumb thing to go. Only when service frequency is like a high-performance subway line (one train every 4 minutes or less) one could really count on going to a station without bothering with the timetable.
Unless one has time to waste and wants to do so, nobody would just head to the station and wait the next every-30-min train without being sure, before leaving their house/office/wherever the actual departure time.
You are forgetting an important thing: The big competition for PT is the Car. And you don't have to look up a schedule when you take a car.
But that is not really the main point here. Shorter headways between train means more flexibility for the customer, and the translates in to time savings. It does make a difference if running 15 minutes late during a meeting means you'll be home 1 hour later versus only half an hour later, or only 15 minutes later.
Also for many people there is no choice in when to head for the station. People may be on shifts, or arrive with other trains or buses. Having shorter intervals means that more people will have short transfers or less wasted time before the next departure after their work ends.


Quote:
The idea of not building some transportation infrastructure of whatever mode (rail, road, air) to compel people not to commute longer is social engineering of the worst type. The role of transportation should be always to INCREASE throughput and volumes of people/goods transported, not to reduce them. Unless you are one of those localists who think fast transportation is a sin that disconnects people from their immediate surroundings.
This has nothing to do with social engineering. This has mostly to do with not wasting tax payers' money. At one moment you start to have increasingly reduced returns of investment. Yes, it would be nice to be able to commute from Lugano to Zürich. But is it nice enough to justify the cost that would be involved in making that possible? You can't have everything. That's one of the basic principles of capitalism...

I still am amazed that you seem to be very much in favor of the spending half of "tax and spend socialism".
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Old April 15th, 2012, 03:14 PM   #720
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Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
There are some weak points in the Swiss train network and few of them will be addressed by currently ongoing large projects (Gotthard base tunnel, CEVA in Geneva etc), but overall the system is one of the best in the world and there is no particular need to throw money at more giant projects. What I would appreciate more is an accelerated renewal of rolling stock. I commute to work every morning on Basel-Rheinfelden line and most IR trains are 30-40 years old with few clearly being in the last stages of their useful lives...
Accelerating the renewal of rolling stock isn't really going to happen. All the major manufacturers have full order books.
But SBB is going to take delivery of an unprecedented amount of new rolling stock over the next few years. There are the new IC/IR double decker trains, and there is also a quite large order of RE double deckers of which the first one has just been delivered.
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