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Old June 29th, 2012, 06:56 PM   #841
Don31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
Actually in Switzerland houses near a railways (but not necessary adjacent to it) are often more expensive. This because "near a railway" often includes "near a railway station", and having public transport nearby is valued, so house prices tend to be higher.
Thats the same in the US as well.
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Old June 29th, 2012, 11:25 PM   #842
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Quote:
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Actually in Switzerland houses near a railways (but not necessary adjacent to it) are often more expensive. This because "near a railway" often includes "near a railway station", and having public transport nearby is valued, so house prices tend to be higher.
I know that, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't apply to housed THIS close to the railway. I live about 7 min walking distance from the station and this is as close as I want to get
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Old June 30th, 2012, 11:40 PM   #843
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Nice pics, but the lack of fences on Swiss railways unsettles me deeply.
What difference with a highway ? Is there any contry where highways are
fenced off ? If not, did you complain already ?
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Old July 1st, 2012, 12:16 AM   #844
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Almost all Dutch controlled access highways and trunk railways have physical barriers throughout
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Old July 2nd, 2012, 11:31 AM   #845
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Almost all Dutch controlled access highways and trunk railways have physical barriers throughout
If this is true, it probably is the only country in Europe where such a rule
is applied. There are fences around high-speed railway lines, and they
are there to protect the trains, not the other way around...
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Old July 2nd, 2012, 12:37 PM   #846
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The main reason for all the fences in the Netherlands is simply to prevent disruptions and delays. If a train drivers sees someone walking directly along the tracks it's reported to the control center who then orders all the trains on that line to slow down. In 2011 there where 2700 cases that caused an average delay of 3 hours per day.

Basically all the places where the tracks are directly accessible from public roads have been fenced off the last 10 to 5 years. There also used to be many allotment gardens along the tracks. If possible they have been fenced of, but most of them have closed down. Cameras and big signs have also been placed on spots where there are many cases of people walking along the tracks

Not that it really works, in 2011 the number of the so called "railway track walkers" had increased by 8% over the previous year. Although nobody died that year from being hit by a train (suicides not counted), but this year already 1 person died and in 2010 there were 2 deaths. Luckily these are number only small numbers that statistically don't show a growth or decline. This raises the question if these fences really work, since they don't prevent people dying and are not resulting in a decline in trespassers on the railway tracks.
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Old July 2nd, 2012, 02:49 PM   #847
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Almost all Dutch controlled access highways and trunk railways have physical barriers throughout
Fences along freeways are actually quite uncommon in the Netherlands. The Dutch like the landscape neat and clean. Something they do have in common with the Swiss...
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Old July 2nd, 2012, 09:31 PM   #848
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Some actual news that is not really spectacular for most people, but there's quite a big investment involved.

The SBB will be replacing a big part of it's infrastructure fleet in the next 6 years. 1750 of 2240 vehicles will be replaced by 1740 new vehicles. The total investment will be around 600 million Frank. All type of vehicles will be replaced from ballast hoppers, overhead line cars, rail cranes to locomotives. The most remarkable retirement will be the 40 Spanish designed Am 841 diesel locomotives that the SBB bought from Alstom that where delivered in 1996-1997. Instead of a major overhaul they will now be replaced.

image hosted on flickr

DSC06644 by gnm2010, on Flickr

Apparently the control system is the problem, it's too difficult to keep it working with reasonable effort. In other words, it's costing to much money to be maintain or to be replaced.

source:
Schweizer Eisenbahn-Revue 7/2012.
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Old July 4th, 2012, 01:54 PM   #849
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Scheduling absurdity by Swiss railway authority

This is an example of how the Swiss slow down everyone else crossing their territory by not granting decent paths for international long-distance trains in CH.

Look at the regular schedule of the Interlaken-Berlin train, an ICE covering more than 1000km that should be a express train only.

Quote:
Interlaken Ost dep 06:00
Interlaken West 06:05
Spiez 06:22
Thun 06:32
Bern 07:04
Olten 07:32
Liestal 07:48
Basel SBB 08:12
Basel Bad Bf 08:22

Freiburg(Breisgau) Hbf 08:57
Offenburg 09:30
Karlsruhe Hbf 10:00
Mannheim Hbf 10:31
Frankfurt(Main)Hbf 11:13
Hanau Hbf 11:29
Fulda 12:11
Kassel-Wilhelmshöhe 12:43
Göttingen 13:03
Hildesheim Hbf 13:34
Braunschweig Hbf 14:00
Wolfsburg Hbf 14:18
Berlin-Spandau
Berlin Hbf arr 15:25
Note that the Swiss part of the journey last only 2h22min of the total trip, but it has freaking 8 stops for less than 200km!

It is the same with any other operator that wants to run trains in Switzerland, they force them to allow their nice trainsets to be used for mundane commute trips between the large metropolises of Thun and Spiez.

Wouldn't it be much better if such train operated with these stops only:

Interlaken Ost, Bern, Basel, Manheim, Frankfurt, Kassel, Hannover (re-route), Berlin. That would save like 50-70min from total travel time.
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Old July 4th, 2012, 01:58 PM   #850
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It has explained many, many, many times why things are is like that and why that's good.
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Old July 4th, 2012, 02:14 PM   #851
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If you'd actally bother looking on a map of Switzerland, you'd see in one second that all those stops are actually within bigger agglomerations, important rail hubs or bigger tourist centres. As it was pointed out numberous times before.
Oh, why can't you eventually stop trolling around.
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Old July 4th, 2012, 02:21 PM   #852
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Quote:
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If you'd actally bother looking on a map of Switzerland, you'd see in one second that all those stops are actually within bigger agglomerations, important rail hubs
That is the problem: CH has too many hail hubs.

I'm collecting schedules from other international trains to show how the Swiss scheduling slows them all, compared to traffic in neighboring countries of the same train services.
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Old July 4th, 2012, 02:54 PM   #853
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if it were a cross-switzerland train, you might have had a point

but the WHOLE POINT of this particular service is to bring germans to the idillic tourist destinations..

..and the more the train stops the less they have to transfer and the more likely they will take the train


it is also one of the reasons why the french are not in a hurry to build the LGV PACA: most of the people board in Paris but their destinations are spread across the coastline so the more the train stops there the better
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Old July 4th, 2012, 03:37 PM   #854
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
This is an example of how the Swiss slow down everyone else crossing their territory by not granting decent paths for international long-distance trains in CH.

Wouldn't it be much better if such train operated with these stops only:

Interlaken Ost, Bern, Basel, Manheim, Frankfurt, Kassel, Hannover (re-route), Berlin. That would save like 50-70min from total travel time.
And again you demonstrate how fortunate we are that you are not involved in the running of a railway.

You forget that the market for these ICE trains is not Berlin - Interlaken. The market is "Germany - Berner Oberland". But that is not the only market they serve. They also serve the "Zürich Airport - Bernese Oberland" market, so they must als stop in Bern.
They also serve the "Wallis - Bernese Oberland" market, so they must stop in Spiez.
They wouldn't be faster if they skipped Interlaken West (and quite a few people detrain there) so why not stop there, and make the train more usefull?
On the Spiez - Interlaken line the time en route is more or less determined by the presence of sidings. The locals, which stop everywhere, do the line in the same time (or even faster) as the ICE trains...

You seem to think that an operator should be free to run a train according to any schedule he pleases. Unfortunately on a railway this is not possible. there is a simple rule, applicable in this universe, that states that two trains can^t occupy the same piece of track. This isn't Sid Meyers Railroad Tycoon, this is the real world. In in the real world you need to apply for a timetable slot if you want to run a train. And this slot will determine where you will have to be at what time, and where and when to stop.

There are also economics in place. Contrary to what you seem to think the railways involved do want to make money with their trains. And for that they need passengers. They also need to run just the right amount of trains. Removing for example the Liestal stop would save one minute, but it would also mean that another train service would have to stop in Liestal in its stead, and that costs money, more money than you would gain by not stopping the ICE in Liestal.
In the long term SBB does want to eliminate the Liestal stops however, and have the Basel - Bern -Interlaken train that runs half an hour later do this, but this is currently not possible, as this train must connect with the TGV service from Paris, but first a flyover neesds to be build in the eastern aproaches to Bern station.

That this trains makes these stops is thus basically due to:
- Physics.
- Economics.
- People at SBB and DB generally being a lot smarter than you.

Just to show how important intermediate stations are: During the interruption of the Gotthard route the SBB ran a train pair direct Zürich - Milano non stop via the Simplon route. This train transported about 200 passengers...
The subsitute buses on the Gotthard however transported about 10000 passengers daily...
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Old July 4th, 2012, 03:59 PM   #855
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Beside that, the Basel-Bern-Spiez line has between 250 and 400 trains a day on two tracks, considering that starting with 200-220 trains a day a railway can be considered trafficked as it becomes difficult to have trains of different speeds, there is nothing much to do to speed up single trains.

The two solutions Suburbanist will certainly propose are the following, but both are unrealistic.

1) cancelling some other trains ==> not feasible because the interests of 5.000/25.000 passengers are superior to those of 100 passengers

2) building a new line ==> not worth for only 1000 passengers (assuming that a new line would multiply 10 times the request on such long trips)
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Old July 4th, 2012, 04:22 PM   #856
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
That is the problem: CH has too many hail hubs.

I'm collecting schedules from other international trains to show how the Swiss scheduling slows them all, compared to traffic in neighboring countries of the same train services.
Since you're collecting schedules have a look how many trains run on the Basel - Olten line...

The SBB network is extremely busy. That they manage to run so many trains on the limited infrastructure is only possible because of some very clever timetabling.
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Old July 4th, 2012, 04:30 PM   #857
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Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Beside that, the Basel-Bern-Spiez line has between 250 and 400 trains a day on two tracks, considering that starting with 200-220 trains a day a railway can be considered trafficked as it becomes difficult to have trains of different speeds, there is nothing much to do to speed up single trains.
You can download the graphic timetables from http://www.fahrplanfelder.ch/ (choose Archiv, then "Grafische Fahrpläner"). There you can see how busy the Swiss network is, and how just fitting in a train with less stops is not that easy, and often not possible. There are 10 passengers trains per hour in each direction on the Basel - Olten line, and up to 5 freights. The only way you can have an international train run all the way to Interlaken without reducing service levels to the locals (and those are your taxpayer, don't forget...) is to have it take over the stops of a domestic IC service...
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Old July 6th, 2012, 01:05 AM   #858
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I am a bit late (6 months lol) but I just read FSS improved itself to mode modern standards by having stopped selling tickets on board long distance trains with mere convenience fees and treating those without tickets as irregular passengers without a valid ticker, subject to fines of CHF 90. The practice was already in place for regional trains and S-Bahn.

Now, let's hope the Germans and Austrians follow suit and end this outdated, inexcusable practice altogether (there are automated ticket machines anywhere these days, and they even have ability to serve disabled costumers).
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Old July 6th, 2012, 02:56 AM   #859
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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I am a bit late (6 months lol) but I just read FSS improved itself to mode modern standards by having stopped selling tickets on board long distance trains with mere convenience fees and treating those without tickets as irregular passengers without a valid ticker, subject to fines of CHF 90. The practice was already in place for regional trains and S-Bahn.

Now, let's hope the Germans and Austrians follow suit and end this outdated, inexcusable practice altogether (there are automated ticket machines anywhere these days, and they even have ability to serve disabled costumers).
I don't see anything wrong with buying tickets on a train. It was quite convenient on the Gatwick express, when we didn't have time to buy a ticket, we ran into the train, took a first calss seat and waited for the conductor come and sell our tickets to us.
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Old July 6th, 2012, 03:55 AM   #860
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I don't see anything wrong with buying tickets on a train. It was quite convenient on the Gatwick express, when we didn't have time to buy a ticket, we ran into the train, took a first calss seat and waited for the conductor come and sell our tickets to us.
This is their official explanation:

Quote:
It is now mandatory to hold a valid ticket before boarding any SBB train.
This change, which was implemented on 11 December 2011, mainly relates to long-distance services. Due to rising demand and, in many cases, short journey times between stops, it was becoming increasingly difficult under the existing inspection system for inspectors to check the tickets of all passengers on long-distance services and customers were no longer able to buy tickets after boarding. As a result, SBB was having to forgo revenues to the tune of some tens of millions of francs. If it had not changed the system, even bigger fare increases would have become inevitable in the future.

Consequently, the obligation to buy a ticket before travelling – which already applied to regional and local services, has now been extended to long-distance services. This fare regulation also applies to the Swiss section of the international train journeys.
Which makes sense...

It is all too easy to cheat fare collection on systems where you can buy your ticket online, unless you have thorough checks all over the place between every two stations.

SBB was losing "tens of millions of francs" because conductors couldn't check everyone on each train, and thus people could travel for free even if they were willing to buy a ticket.
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