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Old July 6th, 2012, 09:29 PM   #881
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank IBC View Post
Such petit bourgeois worry about "costs".

Convert the entire route from Montreaux to Luzerne to high-speed, standard-gauge double-track, with a base tunnel under the Brunig Pass, I say.

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Old July 7th, 2012, 12:54 PM   #882
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
But what about regular passengers (non-tourists) travelling from Interlaken to Luzern? Both are relatively important cities.
The only reason Interlaken is relatively important is tourism. Without it it's just an average village.
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Old July 7th, 2012, 01:24 PM   #883
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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
But what about regular passengers (non-tourists) travelling from Interlaken to Luzern? Both are relatively important cities. I know that connections to Zurich are faster via Bern.
There are no regular commuters on Interlaken - Luzern. There is some commuting to Interlaken from as far as Brienz. And there is quite a bit of commuting towards Luzern from as far as Giswil. For that reason there is a half hourly local from Giswil to Luzern, and there is an hourly local from Meiringen to Interlaken.
Most people who live in the Meiringen area either work in Tourism, or for the KWO, and thus have no need to go to Interlaken or Luzern on a daily basis. And any business they have in a bigger place will more likely be in Interlaken than in Luzern. (As Luzern is in a different Canton...)
The through trains Interlaken - Luzern thus exist mostly for tourists.

Of course it could be sped up if one were to build an expensive tunnel between Brienz and Giswil, but the benefits would not justify the cost.
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Old July 8th, 2012, 10:23 PM   #884
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Dear Swiss railway friends,

I'd like to recommend you a few of my photo galleries about the Rhätische Bahn:

I hope you're going to like them!
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Old July 9th, 2012, 12:23 AM   #885
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaud View Post
Actually selling tickets online is also subject to fraud; e.g. someone travelling between Lausanne and Genève in an IR train might very well just buy the ticket with his phone when he sees the ticket collector arrive, and that might happen after train has already stopped in Morges and Nyon so he would pay much less if he bought the ticket starting from Nyon and pretending he got on the train there. It's risky, but I'm pretty sure it happens. Ticket collectors can't and don't have such a good memory as to tell you're lying, specially on trains with plenty of passengers where often they just start yelling "passengers who got in the last station please show your tickets! anyone got in the last station?!". BTW on most long-distance trains there are indeed ticket collectors, I'm sure it happens but I've never travelled on an IC, ICN or IR without getting checked.
Really? You must not be traveling on trains regularly. I'm commuting to work with IR every day and there is a ticket control ca 30% of the time (on the stretch I use). Of course if you are going very far then it will be very rare not to see a ticket control, but it does happen occasionally. Last time I went to Freiburg from Basel ticket agents totally ignored me (perhaps assumed that I got on in Zurich).
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Old July 9th, 2012, 12:24 AM   #886
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benbe View Post
I hope you're going to like them!
Bence
Certainly - thank you!
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Old July 9th, 2012, 02:58 AM   #887
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
Really? You must not be traveling on trains regularly. I'm commuting to work with IR every day and there is a ticket control ca 30% of the time (on the stretch I use). Of course if you are going very far then it will be very rare not to see a ticket control, but it does happen occasionally. Last time I went to Freiburg from Basel ticket agents totally ignored me (perhaps assumed that I got on in Zurich).
Ticket check frequencies have gone done in the past few years, or maybe it's just my experience. The past 6-7 times I've taken trains between Zurich Airport and Schaffhausen (and back) I haven't been checked at all. I used to take that route quite often back in 06/07 and I was checked every single time!
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Old July 9th, 2012, 07:32 AM   #888
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Originally Posted by Spam King View Post
Ticket check frequencies have gone done in the past few years, or maybe it's just my experience. The past 6-7 times I've taken trains between Zurich Airport and Schaffhausen (and back) I haven't been checked at all. I used to take that route quite often back in 06/07 and I was checked every single time!
Depends on the trains you take of course. The direct Zürich Airport - Schaffhausen train is an S-Bahn, and that train only has one staff member on board, and he (or she) is busy operating the train.

Between Zürich and Bern I always get checked...
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Old July 10th, 2012, 01:00 PM   #889
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Malfunctioning mechanical indicators can sometimes produce funny advices. This one show a train cancellation on the first line, and the town of Laufen (which has a double meaning in German) on the second line.

The result is a funny "train cancelled - walk"

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Old July 10th, 2012, 04:00 PM   #890
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How much subsidy the whole Visp-Andermatt-Chur rail link requires annually? Does someone have figures? I know the route is actually comprised of a handful different private rail companies. Do they pay for themselves?

Actually, a more general question: how are Swiss private smaller railways compensated for allowing passengers on SBB passes or subscriptions, discounts etc?
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Old July 10th, 2012, 04:18 PM   #891
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
How much subsidy the whole Visp-Andermatt-Chur rail link requires annually? Does someone have figures? I know the route is actually comprised of a handful different private rail companies. Do they pay for themselves?
The ownership of most private railways is usually a mixture of private and public investors (mostly towns and cantons, and the federation). They get subsidies based on contracts with the cantons and the federation.

Quote:
Actually, a more general question: how are Swiss private smaller railways compensated for allowing passengers on SBB passes or subscriptions, discounts etc?
Statistics. A few times a year groups of data collectors equipped with portable computers are send out, and ask everyone on the train what their origin and destination is.
Based on that it is estimated how many passengers with passes travel on a particular network, and the companies get compensated.
In other cases the companies just get paid for running trains by an umbrella organization that collects the fares, like the ZVV around Zürich.
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Old July 10th, 2012, 04:19 PM   #892
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
In any case, since ticket machines are ubiquitous, I see no reason for giving the option to buy tickets on-board, especially if SBB itself claims to be losing tens of millions of francs.

Since its network is vast, maybe they should change towards a national transportation RFID card model, like the Netherlands (regardless of the whole issue or gating or not gating stations, which is separate from the issue of using RFID cards). RFID cards could become compulsory for use in any purely domestic journey.
Actually the CFF are already thinking about it. I remember reading some months ago they were going to start using the system in Lucerne to test it there before implementing it everywhere; I've searched for that article but haven't been able to find it again unfortunately.

However there is a vague reference in this article from today

Quote:
Le billet à puce électronique en cours d'élaboration permettra-t-il d'équilibrer ces dépenses? «Le but serait de pouvoir équiper tous les titres de transport d'une puce électronique afin d'adapter les prix à la consommation réelle des usagers», relève Ulrich Gygi.

Mais le projet reste une musique d'avenir puisque les CFF doivent concilier avec un réseau complexe de 170 entreprises de transport et que le concept «nécessite des centaines de millions de francs d'investissements pour équiper électroniquement les wagons et les gares.»
The president of the CFF says using the electronic ticket is still an objective for them, but the journalist adds this is in the limbo given that there's 170 different transport companies and that it would require hundreds of millions of francs in investments to fit the coaches and stations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
Really? You must not be traveling on trains regularly. I'm commuting to work with IR every day and there is a ticket control ca 30% of the time (on the stretch I use). Of course if you are going very far then it will be very rare not to see a ticket control, but it does happen occasionally. Last time I went to Freiburg from Basel ticket agents totally ignored me (perhaps assumed that I got on in Zurich).
Well that happens to me in the RegioExpress I commute with everyday (getting checked once every while), I dunno why's there such a different policy on ticket controllers, maybe it depends on the number of passengers or average fines per train, who knows.
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Old August 3rd, 2012, 10:21 AM   #893
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The SBB have ordered 8 additional ETR 610, apparently they are part of the around 20 options included in the contract signed by Cisalpino. They will be identical to the existing 14 sets (7 used by SBB, 7 used by Trenitalia) and will be used on the Gotthard line (I hope SBB will increase the number of trips, as the ETR 610 have 50 less seats compared to the ETR 470 which run with standing passengers on peak days due to insufficient capacity).
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Old August 3rd, 2012, 11:28 AM   #894
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Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
The SBB have ordered 8 additional ETR 610, apparently they are part of the around 20 options included in the contract signed by Cisalpino. They will be identical to the existing 14 sets (7 used by SBB, 7 used by Trenitalia) and will be used on the Gotthard line (I hope SBB will increase the number of trips, as the ETR 610 have 50 less seats compared to the ETR 470 which run with standing passengers on peak days due to insufficient capacity).
The ETR610 can run coupled, so that should increase capacity quite significantly. (And how come there are standing passengers on the ETR470's when each one of them has a relief train following it...)

I wonder what SBB will do with these trains once the Gotthard base tunnel opens and the new international trainsets SBB intends to buy will start running. I think those sets would be quite suitable to upgrade the Brussel - Strasbourg - Basel service.
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Old August 3rd, 2012, 11:43 AM   #895
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Press release from Alstom.
Quote:
Alstom will supply 8 additional New Pendolino trains to SBB, the Swiss federal railway operator

Alstom has been awarded an order from the Swiss federal railway operator, SBB, to supply 8 additional New Pendolino high speed trains that will be added to the existing fleet of 7 trains already owned by SBB. This order, worth around €200 million, is an option of the contract signed in March 2004 between Alstom and Cisalpino, the former joint venture of Trenitalia (Italian railway operator) and SBB. The delivery of the new trains is scheduled for 2015.

SBB will operate the new trains on the lines between Milan and Geneva and between Milan and Zurich.
http://www.alstom.com/press-centre/2...lway-operator/
Interestingly there was also a press release from the SBB in German, but that seems to have been deleted.

There's only a press release in Italian.
http://www.ffs.ch/gruppo/media/comun...0208_45_3.html

That has some interesting info, the ETR 470 will be used until late 2014. This confirms what we already know and rules out the possibility that they will be taken out of service earlier.

Another interesting quote from the article is that the sets can also be used for domestic services. That might be hint a hint for future use of the trains.

But since they are also approved to run in Germany they could also be option for the trains to Stuttgart and München. Both are routes where the tilting could be used.
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Old August 3rd, 2012, 07:43 PM   #896
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The ETR610 can run coupled, so that should increase capacity quite significantly.
Apparently FS/RFI/Trenitalia (it's the same thing...) doesn't want two ETR 610 in multiple at Milano Centrale so as to save the "few" long platforms it has.

Quote:
(And how come there are standing passengers on the ETR470's when each one of them has a relief train following it...)
Both the ETR 470 and the relief "ICN" train are sometimes full. If not with standing passengers, on Fridays/Sundays the 470s can quite easily be 80%-90% full (470 seats), with the relief trains also well used (another 400-600 people).

(although relief trains run also on off-peak times because of chronic delays of EC CIS trains - usually made with ETR 470)
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Old August 3rd, 2012, 08:44 PM   #897
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Apparently FS/RFI/Trenitalia (it's the same thing...) doesn't want two ETR 610 in multiple at Milano Centrale so as to save the "few" long platforms it has.
So you drop one set in Chiasso...

But I find the lengths RFI is willing to go to increase even further the under utilisation of Milano Centrale baffling.
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Old August 16th, 2012, 08:41 PM   #898
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Trenitalia loves international trains so much that EC trains between Milano and Domodossola are often if not only composed by couchette/sleeping cars with beds closed, some sets with just 4 (second class) coaches, instead of the 7 coaches of an ETR 610, or the dozen of coaches on trains of some years ago.

From 13th August until 2nd September the line between Domodossola and Iselle (just before the Simplon tunnel) is closed because of urgent works (caused by lack of maintenance by RFI) so the ETR 610 aren't used between Milano and Domodossola (maybe they are between Iselle and Geneva or Basel).
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Old August 17th, 2012, 01:31 AM   #899
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...
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Old August 25th, 2012, 01:40 AM   #900
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Loading ramp for narrow gauge trains on standard gauge flat cars (usually it's the opposite): https://maps.google.ch/maps?q=Ins&hl...68.59,,1,20.02
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