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Old December 10th, 2012, 06:41 PM   #1001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
Sorry, but we're smarter than you. A lot it appears.
You smart-arse just think that you're clever. Yet, you lack even the basic ability of reading comprehension. I did nowhere claim that Switzerland wouldn't invest at all. I only said that it invests in a way that benefits almost entirely its own people. A fact that you fail to disprove by the way. If you can't make this simple distinction then you should just get lost and leave this forum to knowledgeable people. That would be better for you and better for this forum.
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Old December 10th, 2012, 07:01 PM   #1002
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Gotthard Base Tunnel is designed for 250 km/h.

When the Gotthard Base Tunnel shall open in 2016, how far north of Erstfeld shall the railways be free of bottlenecks requiring slowdown below 250 km/h? What shall the travel time be from, say, Basel to Camorino in 2016?
There is no need for bothering about speed restrictions outside the GBT. The tunnel might be designed for high speed. The chances of actual services running that fast are rather slim. The best you can hope for are services at a speed of 160 km/h.
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Old December 10th, 2012, 07:13 PM   #1003
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The best you can hope for are services at a speed of 160 km/h.
That's true, but it's an excellent decision.
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Old December 10th, 2012, 07:27 PM   #1004
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That's true, but it's an excellent decision.
Excellent decision to increase travel time by 290 seconds over every damn tunnel crossing?
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Old December 10th, 2012, 08:30 PM   #1005
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I only said that it invests in a way that benefits almost entirely its own people
you mean like... yeh... those who pay the taxes used for for those investments? OMG Switzerland is so wrong seriously....
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Old December 10th, 2012, 09:03 PM   #1006
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you mean like... yeh... those who pay the taxes used for for those investments? OMG Switzerland is so wrong seriously....
Whether Switzerland is wrong depends how you look on it. In any case they are extremely selfish.
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Old December 10th, 2012, 11:19 PM   #1007
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@Suburbanist

@Firefly

Seeing that you have plenty of money, you can help us a bit. A km of twin tube tunnel is around 100-150 million EUR per km, and you are proposing hundreds of km of new tunnels. So...

(a reduction of 5 minutes for passenger trains seems nothing but may reduce freight capacity by 20%)

(telling others how to spend their money or proposing to waste it is just trolling - not to say that an attitude of building or spending public money without caring to the future has led some European countries to the disaster - it's in their full right, but I prefer keeping my country economically safe)
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Old December 11th, 2012, 12:20 AM   #1008
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My only point is that Switzerland is being left behind in high-speed rail. You can travel in less than 3h between Roma T. and Milano C., but you can't do the same between Genève and Lugano. That should say something about the state of rail transport in Switzerland.

It just doesn't work for medium and long distance trips.

In the specific case of slower passenger trains, that is because of stupid AlpTransit, or else much of freight capacity withdrawn from rails because of higher speed would just use A2 on truck trailers.

THAT is the elephant in the room - they are slowing all passengers on the Gotthard line because of some "was on transalpine trucking"
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Old December 11th, 2012, 12:39 AM   #1009
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telling others how to spend their money* or proposing to waste it is just trolling
*here "knowing nothing about what one is speaking about" should be added
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Old December 11th, 2012, 12:45 AM   #1010
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Switzerland has a much higher percentage of freight on rail than neighbouring countries (not just Alptransit). Passenger trains usually have a priority, but it's just logical that the other side of the business is not ignored either.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 01:16 AM   #1011
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Perhaps the countries surrounding Switzerland should start digging some kick-ass long tunnels criss-crossing underneath Switzerland.

That way they can't complain that Switzerland hasn't done enough to get all them pesky mountains of theirs out of the way of international transport.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 01:30 AM   #1012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
*here "knowing nothing about what one is speaking about" should be added
Then be careful that this doesn't apply to yourself.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 01:37 AM   #1013
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The Glacier Express, running between Zermatt (VS) and St. Moritz/Davos (GR) started winter-season service this Sunday:

1.


2.


3.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 01:44 AM   #1014
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Originally Posted by StuZealand View Post
Perhaps the countries surrounding Switzerland should start digging some kick-ass long tunnels criss-crossing underneath Switzerland.
Actually, it would be more cost-efficient to neglect the transport links to and from Switzerland. They seem to be self-sufficient the way they act. So why bothering with tunnelling them when its neighbouring countries already have direct or indirect access to sea ports.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 08:40 AM   #1015
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Are there any plans to link Valais and Ticino with some sort of rail tunnel that doesn't require taking the slow trains to Goschenen or having to travel via Milano?
There might be trains Valais - Ticino via the new Mendrisio - Varese link.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 08:54 AM   #1016
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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
My only point is that Switzerland is being left behind in high-speed rail. You can travel in less than 3h between Roma T. and Milano C., but you can't do the same between Genève and Lugano. That should say something about the state of rail transport in Switzerland.
It says something about the need for fast travel between smaller cities being much less.
Now if Genéve and Lugano were both part of the same language zone, and if they both had populations in the millions, and if they were both part of a country with a highly centralised government structure...
And if there hadn't been that huge mountain range getting in the way of everything...
Given enough money it's probably solveable. But the most efficient way to transport people from Geneva to Lugano that absolutely need to be able to travel out and back in a day is by plane.

Switzerland is a bit different. You have to live here to understand, but the railways have a different role here. In France or Italy the main role appears to be to transport people back and forth to the capital.
Switzerland however is a decentralised country. The Gotthard route sees more passengers during weekends then during the week, which shows that it's tourists and vacationers that make the trip from the rest of Switzerland to Ticino.
I never travel to Ticino and back on the same day, and can't imagine I'll ever have the need to.
Swiss identify quite strongly with their region, and people are not expected to commute far. "Commuting distance" means 30 minutes for most Swiss. Moving to another Canton than the one you're born in is unthinkeable for many Swiss (it is for my wife).

Different problems require different solutions...



Quote:
In the specific case of slower passenger trains, that is because of stupid AlpTransit, or else much of freight capacity withdrawn from rails because of higher speed would just use A2 on truck trailers.

THAT is the elephant in the room - they are slowing all passengers on the Gotthard line because of some "was on transalpine trucking"
No, the "elephant in the room" is that Trenitalia wants the trains from Switzerland to Milano to stay on their existing departure/arrival times, which means that the utility of increasing the speeds in the GBT at the moment is quite limited.
And actually I agree with Trenitalia here. The current arrival/departure times of xx:50/xx:10 are quite good, as they give good connections with onward trains.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 08:55 AM   #1017
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Originally Posted by flierfy View Post
Actually, it would be more cost-efficient to neglect the transport links to and from Switzerland. They seem to be self-sufficient the way they act. So why bothering with tunnelling them when its neighbouring countries already have direct or indirect access to sea ports.
Ask all those trucks on the Gotthard motorway why they bother driving through Switzerland...
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Old December 11th, 2012, 08:59 AM   #1018
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You smart-arse just think that you're clever. (...) you should just get lost and leave this forum to knowledgeable people. That would be better for you and better for this forum.
The truth hurts it appears.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 10:53 AM   #1019
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There might be trains Valais - Ticino via the new Mendrisio - Varese link.
Trips with a change of trains in Gallarate will certainly be possible, however I don't think there will be direct trains, at least initially.

Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
No, the "elephant in the room" is that Trenitalia wants the trains from Switzerland to Milano to stay on their existing departure/arrival times, which means that the utility of increasing the speeds in the GBT at the moment is quite limited.
And actually I agree with Trenitalia here. The current arrival/departure times of xx:50/xx:10 are quite good, as they give good connections with onward trains.
The timetable of Milano-Zürich EC may change completely by the end of next year, but I can't say more.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 11:40 AM   #1020
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Trips with a change of trains in Gallarate will certainly be possible, however I don't think there will be direct trains, at least initially.
Swiss people don't mind changing trains however...
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