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Old December 11th, 2012, 11:52 AM   #1021
Coccodrillo
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Neither I do, except when I'm in Italy...
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Old December 11th, 2012, 12:57 PM   #1022
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Neither I do, except when I'm in Italy...
The last few times I was in Italy the trains were remarkably punctual. It was in fact in Switzerland that we ended up incurring a delay of half an hour...
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Old December 11th, 2012, 01:18 PM   #1023
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The truth hurts it appears.
So, you feel the pain.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 01:29 PM   #1024
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So, you feel the pain.
Yes, I feel your pain.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 01:47 PM   #1025
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Swiss people don't mind changing trains however...
The problem is not changing trains, but the quality of ride (speed, alignment, rolling stock etc) of the trains and the changing station.

SBB website, on my hypothetical Visp-Lugano query, recommends for certain periods a dreadful journey via FART between Domodossola and Locarno, e.g., it puts you on an outdated railway (Centovalli) with hundreds of tight curves, slow speeds (some sectors max speed is 60km/h for almost 8km!) etc. I'm not sure they have modernization plans for the Centovalli railway, it is more like a touristic enterprise I think,

That is the same of you wanting to drive between two relatively important cities and having to put up with a mountain pass traverse or drive 200km more to get around it. It should be noted, incidentally, there are not permanent Valais-Ticino highway connection either, though the mountain pass road there is quite modern and wide but open only late May-first heavy snowfall Oct./Nov.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 02:15 PM   #1026
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I don't really see your point, Suburbanist, there obviously is a limit under which huge investments make no sense, e.g. in the extreme case of having two 1,000-inhabitants villages separated by a huge range of mountains, would you build a 50km base tunnel just to link them? Obviously not... but as usual whilst the extremes are pretty clear, there are big grey areas in the middle; Valais and Ticino might be one of them, but IMHO existing and potential relationships between both cantons (each hosting a little bit over 300,000 inhabitants in their total areas, but most of valais population lives on the other extreme of the Rhône valley) do not justify such a big investment you propose... maybe if money grew on fields, but not when there are other more densely populated areas urgently requiring those investments to just keep working.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 02:42 PM   #1027
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I don't really see your point, Suburbanist, there obviously is a limit under which huge investments make no sense, e.g. in the extreme case of having two 1,000-inhabitants villages separated by a huge range of mountains, would you build a 50km base tunnel just to link them? Obviously not... but as usual whilst the extremes are pretty clear, there are big grey areas in the middle; Valais and Ticino might be one of them, but IMHO existing and potential relationships between both cantons (each hosting a little bit over 300,000 inhabitants in their total areas, but most of valais population lives on the other extreme of the Rhône valley) do not justify such a big investment you propose... maybe if money grew on fields, but not when there are other more densely populated areas urgently requiring those investments to just keep working.
There is an alternative. An alternative that the Swiss gov't relinquished when it refused to build that underground station on the Gotthard tunnel that would have allowed, at least, passengers to change trains near Sedrun. Not ideal, but with additional improvements on the line following the Rhone (there is already the Furka base tunnel there), some progress could be attained.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 04:38 PM   #1028
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Quote:
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The last few times I was in Italy the trains were remarkably punctual. It was in fact in Switzerland that we ended up incurring a delay of half an hour...
The (ex) Cisalpino trains are a disaster (and also because of the SBB), but other trains in Switzerland are usually on time.

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It should be noted, incidentally, there are not permanent Valais-Ticino highway connection either, though the mountain pass road there is quite modern and wide but open only late May-first heavy snowfall Oct./Nov.
A Novena/Nufenen tunnel would be nice but too expensive for the predictable traffic.

Quote:
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There is an alternative. An alternative that the Swiss gov't relinquished when it refused to build that underground station on the Gotthard tunnel that would have allowed, at least, passengers to change trains near Sedrun. Not ideal, but with additional improvements on the line following the Rhone (there is already the Furka base tunnel there), some progress could be attained.
No, it isn't an alternative. Not only because the FO line is scenic but slow, but because Sedrun shaft and rescue station were not designed to be used regularly. To quit the tunnel, passengers alighted from a train would have to travel 1 km by bus to the shaft, take a lift for 800 m, then another 2 km by bus to reach Sedrun station (not to consider that vehicles longer than a small van cannot reach that station).
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Old December 11th, 2012, 05:07 PM   #1029
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
There is an alternative. An alternative that the Swiss gov't relinquished when it refused to build that underground station on the Gotthard tunnel that would have allowed, at least, passengers to change trains near Sedrun. Not ideal, but with additional improvements on the line following the Rhone (there is already the Furka base tunnel there), some progress could be attained.
Porta Alpina would not have led to faster trip times between Valais and Ticino.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 05:09 PM   #1030
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
The (ex) Cisalpino trains are a disaster (and also because of the SBB), but other trains in Switzerland are usually on time.
I know, I live here. But it was kind of ironic that on a trip from Palermo to Bern we were running exactly on time till we reached Brig...
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Old December 11th, 2012, 05:54 PM   #1031
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So, you feel the pain.
You really are delusional.
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Old December 12th, 2012, 05:48 PM   #1032
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Let's get back to a pleasant atmosphere now..

There are some new pictures from the construction of the DML line in Zurich:

Two new bridges between Zurich’s main station and Altstetten are helping reduce congestion on the tracks to the west of the station:
the Kohlendreieck bridge begins at the Langstrasse subway, extending to the Hard bridge, while the Letzigraben bridge spans the tracks from the Hard bridge to Altstetten.









source: pictures from http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/...rlinie?fref=ts and quotes from http://www.sbb.ch/en/corporation/the...city-link.html
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Old December 12th, 2012, 05:52 PM   #1033
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Just before the main station, the cross-city link’s twin tracks end at the new Löwenstrasse through-station, which is being constructed at a depth of some 16 metres under the main station’s tracks 4 to 9.

The new Gessnerallee passage way has a number of functions:
it serves as a shopping mall as well as a new connection between the Museumstrasse and Löwenstrasse underground stations and the platforms in the main station’s main hall.



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Old December 12th, 2012, 05:55 PM   #1034
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Trains also leave the through-station on two tracks, entering the Weinberg tunnel and heading toward Oerlikon.
The tunnel passes under the River Limmat and the Zürichberg mountain, ending some five kilometres later as it approaches Oerlikon.









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Old December 12th, 2012, 05:56 PM   #1035
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In Oerlikon, the rail bed between the tunnel entrance and Oerlikon station is being expanded, in order to create room for two new tracks.

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Old December 12th, 2012, 06:22 PM   #1036
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Swiss railway passengers asked to participate more in the cost of the railway system:

SBB-Preisschub – treue Kunden werden bestraft

Current ticket and abonnement ("flatrate" ticket) prices do not cover the expenses of the national railway company. According to Verkehrs-Club der Schweiz (VCS), passengers only come up for about 1/4 of the total cost.
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Old December 12th, 2012, 08:36 PM   #1037
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Abonnements are indeed currently very cheap (regular tickets are certainly not), but they need to take into account that large price increases will encourage people to drive more thus increasing traffic jams and road maintenance costs.
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Old December 14th, 2012, 07:25 AM   #1038
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Quote:
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Abonnements are indeed currently very cheap (regular tickets are certainly not), but they need to take into account that large price increases will encourage people to drive more thus increasing traffic jams and road maintenance costs.
The decision to commute by car or by public transit is rarely made based on price alone. Especially in Switzerland. Employers in downtown Zürich for example normally don't provide parking for their employees.
Also the abonnements are quite cheap still, even with the price increases. I had a Generalabonnement for years, and was amazed that something of such value was sold at that price. Per km I paid less than a third of what I would have paid had I owned a car and used it in stead. Given the need for money to maintain the high standard of the Swiss public transport system, and the incredible value a Generalabonnement represents I think that the price increase is justified.
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Old December 14th, 2012, 01:48 PM   #1039
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Quote:
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You really are delusional.
You tell him!
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Old December 15th, 2012, 01:00 AM   #1040
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Quote:
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The decision to commute by car or by public transit is rarely made based on price alone. Especially in Switzerland. Employers in downtown Zürich for example normally don't provide parking for their employees.
Also the abonnements are quite cheap still, even with the price increases. I had a Generalabonnement for years, and was amazed that something of such value was sold at that price. Per km I paid less than a third of what I would have paid had I owned a car and used it in stead. Given the need for money to maintain the high standard of the Swiss public transport system, and the incredible value a Generalabonnement represents I think that the price increase is justified.
I agree with that and those 5% won't make much of a difference for me (I don't need a general abo anyway), but if they were to double the price I could easily choose to drive instead. Unlike most commuters I live in a city and commute to work outside it. Plenty of parking there...
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