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Old May 12th, 2010, 06:45 PM   #121
gramercy
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thx, looks real nice

so this will be a tilting train?
15kv only?
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Old May 12th, 2010, 08:56 PM   #122
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Thanks.
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Old May 12th, 2010, 09:06 PM   #123
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ARB (Arth-Rigi-Bahn, blue) + VRB (Vitznau-Rigi-Bahn, red) = RB (Rigi Bahnen)









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Old May 12th, 2010, 09:20 PM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gramercy View Post
thx, looks real nice

so this will be a tilting train?
15kv only?
Well, they're not going to change the whole electric system for some new train, would they?
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Old May 12th, 2010, 09:40 PM   #125
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Thanks again for your great answer :-)

BTW, do you know how are they planning to run the trains that get into France? I mean, will they be jointly operated by CFF and SNCF (or any other entity) and share the proceeds? and would it be legal for a ticket collector to fine a french citizen once the train has left Swiss territory?
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Old May 12th, 2010, 09:47 PM   #126
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Thanks.
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Old May 12th, 2010, 09:59 PM   #127
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Quote:
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Well, they're not going to change the whole electric system for some new train, would they?
no, but they could try to run them in italy or france?!
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Old May 13th, 2010, 12:48 AM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viscAbarcelona View Post
Thanks again for your great answer :-)

BTW, do you know how are they planning to run the trains that get into France? I mean, will they be jointly operated by CFF and SNCF (or any other entity) and share the proceeds? and would it be legal for a ticket collector to fine a french citizen once the train has left Swiss territory?
There will probably be a common entreprise ("Transferis"?) between SNCF and SBB.

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Originally Posted by gramercy View Post
no, but they could try to run them in italy or france?!
In Italy probably no because swiss loading gauge is a little bigger (italian double decker trains are lower than swiss ones).
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Old May 13th, 2010, 12:33 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gramercy View Post
so this will be a tilting train?
Not in the traditional way the current tilting trains work.

These trains will only have a 1° tilt in comparison to the 8° of normal tilting trains. And it does that with new innovative bogies that allow the train to tilt without having to have an active space consuming tilting system in the train body above the bogies. You might think that 1° tilt is not that much but it results in a 8,5% time reduction on the Bern Lausanne route compared to a conventional train. A tilting train can make a 13% time reduction, but without the 60% higher passenger capacity of the new double stock trains.

Other features of the bogies are that the axles turn inside the bogies to adapt the radius of the curves on the line. Reducing energy use, noise polution & maintenance costs.

As for international use of these trains, only Germany and Austria are in the picture but I believe only as an option to make that possible in a later stage.
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Old May 13th, 2010, 01:17 PM   #130
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thx

so why did siemens and stadler lose?
i think they build better trains than bombardier...
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Old May 13th, 2010, 02:49 PM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
There will probably be a common entreprise ("Transferis"?) between SNCF and SBB.
Or SBB just grabs the TER concession for part or the whole Rhone-Alps region once that comes up for tender...
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Old May 13th, 2010, 02:53 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momo1435 View Post
These trains will only have a 1° tilt in comparison to the 8° of normal tilting trains. And it does that with new innovative bogies that allow the train to tilt without having to have an active space consuming tilting system in the train body above the bogies. You might think that 1° tilt is not that much but it results in a 8,5% time reduction on the Bern Lausanne route compared to a conventional train. A tilting train can make a 13% time reduction, but without the 60% higher passenger capacity of the new double stock trains.
It's actually "tilt compensation" what the trains get. Normally when a train goes through a curve it tilts outwards somewhat. With a doubledeck train there exists the risk that this gets the train out of profile. To avoid that curve speed is limited.
The tilt compensators that will be installed are intented to keep the train perfectly upright (relative to the track) in curves at higher curve speeds.

Quote:
As for international use of these trains, only Germany and Austria are in the picture but I believe only as an option to make that possible in a later stage.
Routes where they could be used are Zürich - Stuttgart and Zürich - München (once that is electrified).
SBB has an option for a further 100 of these sets.
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Old May 14th, 2010, 11:57 AM   #133
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For Zürich - Stuttgart and Zürich - München more tilting trains will be ordered soon, probably a variant of the ETR 610.
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Old May 14th, 2010, 02:45 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
For Zürich - Stuttgart and Zürich - München more tilting trains will be ordered soon, probably a variant of the ETR 610.
They've just stopped using tilting trains on Zürich - Stuttgart. And why would SBB order some more ETR610 based trains after the bad experience they have with the current batch...
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Old May 14th, 2010, 03:42 PM   #135
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Quote:
Comment Bombardier a séduit les CFF

«Bombardier a clairement remporté cette offre. Leur dossier était meilleur. Leur projet a été novateur et supérieur sur de nombreux critères à ceux des autres entreprises. Le confort, le rapport qualité-prix et les coûts de fonctionnement durant tout le cycle de vie du train, et la ponctualité de la livraison comptent parmi les facteurs décisifs», relève Vincent Ducrot, chef ad interim de la section CFF voyageurs

«Des portes supplémentaires ont été prévues en queue et en tête des trains. L’entrée et la sortie des passagers se font ainsi de manière plus fluide.

De plus, la forme et la position des escaliers ont été optimisées, ce qui permet de gagner de la place. Grâce à cela, les trains que Bombardier fabriquera pourront accueillir 1300 passagers (ndlr: 1100 voyageurs dans les Intercity actuellement), soit davantage que les projets concurrents. Par ailleurs, le groupe canadien a pu complètement séparer la première et la deuxième classe, contrairement à l’une des deux autres offres», confie Vincent Ducrot.

La livraison des rames sera étalée sur plusieurs années. Les premiers trains produits par Bombardier devraient rouler dès 2015 sur les axes Saint-Gall-Zurich-Berne-Genève. La seconde et la troisième livraison auront lieu en 2017 et 2019. Bombardier développera une nouvelle technologie qui permettra d’augmenter de 10 à 15 km/heure la vitesse des trains à deux étages dans les virages. «Ainsi, nous pourrons relier Lausanne à Berne en moins d’une heure. En raison des tests et des travaux d’infrastructure que nous devons réaliser, ces trajets seront possibles dès 2020»,

Le Temps
Basically, the Bombardier train is much better in everything; the article adds that the number of jobs created in the country or whether it was a foreign company or not, were factors not considered at all for the decision, as the WTO forbids from doing so. If only all countries were such a good model to follow!
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Old May 14th, 2010, 07:46 PM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viscAbarcelona View Post
Basically, the Bombardier train is much better in everything; the article adds that the number of jobs created in the country or whether it was a foreign company or not, were factors not considered at all for the decision, as the WTO forbids from doing so. If only all countries were such a good model to follow!
What the other countries do is not really that important. Switzerland is an open economy. Stadler Rail, a major Swiss constructor of rolling stock, and one of the other bidders, sells 3/4 of its trains abroad (even to the US). They would never have gotten so big if it wasn't for the free market...
When as a country you export you also have to import. It's good for Switzerland that the best offer won.
Other countries might not be so enlightened, but in the end it's their own economy they're damaging.
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Old May 14th, 2010, 11:42 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by K_ View Post
They've just stopped using tilting trains on Zürich - Stuttgart. And why would SBB order some more ETR610 based trains after the bad experience they have with the current batch...
The info seems quite sure. I don't have other details thought.
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Old August 21st, 2010, 01:13 PM   #138
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Some statistics, only in German and French, but easy to understand.

German:
http://www.litra.ch/Der_offentliche_...in_Zahlen.html
http://www.litra.ch/Die_Schweizer_si...ahnfahren.html

French:
http://www.litra.ch/Les_transports_p..._chiffres.html
http://www.litra.ch/Les_Suisses_a_no..._du_train.html
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Old September 7th, 2010, 11:29 AM   #139
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Transport of two cars of the Davos-Parsenn funicular up to 2700 m above sea level: http://la1.rsi.ch/home/networks/la1/...low#tabEdition

The vehicle run 3.3 km/h uphill and 0.5 km/h downhill, the cars were too heavy (17 tonnes) to be transported with an helicopter.
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Old November 9th, 2010, 09:54 AM   #140
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One of the world's most picturesque rail lines in the world, the Bernina Railway. Listed on UNESCO World Heritage Sites, now comes to you with this spectacular driver's view video!

The whole journey comes in 11 parts, here are the links to first and last:



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