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Old May 11th, 2014, 10:53 PM   #1681
KingNick
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What's the point of having power sockets for every seat then, if you can't even use a laptop?
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Old May 11th, 2014, 11:11 PM   #1682
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I use them to charge my phone when I can - smartphones die so quickly nowadays
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Old May 12th, 2014, 12:02 AM   #1683
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exactly, people nowadays mostly just plug in their phones/tablets, there really are very few people in 2nd class compartments using laptops, whose use is mostly restricted to businessmen in 1st class, hence the table thing
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Old May 12th, 2014, 12:25 AM   #1684
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This is just bollocks. People in the second class use laptops as well, for various reasons. I can't think of any other new EC cars, where not every seat would be equipped with a table. It's also not just laptops you'd need a table for.
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Old May 12th, 2014, 12:27 AM   #1685
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An alternative solution is to arrange seats with fewer facing sets and most of them parallel (airplane-style).

That way, you can easy have a table installed on the back of the seat in front.
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Old May 12th, 2014, 12:58 AM   #1686
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Swiss first class costs three times more than abroad but looks like second class. As for its 2nd class: If this was a regional train, I'd call it very nice. But since we are talking about an Intercity train it looks sub-standard.

From the outside the train looks very nice, yet not very original...
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Old May 12th, 2014, 01:43 AM   #1687
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I rarely see first class coaches more than half full in Switzerland. It just costs too much for only a marginal advantage. The biggest one probably being the very fact that the coaches are almost empty.
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Old May 12th, 2014, 09:21 PM   #1688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rheintram View Post
Swiss first class costs three times more than abroad but looks like second class. As for its 2nd class: If this was a regional train, I'd call it very nice. But since we are talking about an Intercity train it looks sub-standard. From the outside the train looks very nice, yet not very original...
You shouldn't compare the price if Swiss first class with that abroad. Swiss first class is about 50%-60% above second class, which is similar to other countries. I personally find first class on the SBB quite comfortable, especially compared to for example DB. I've gift a first class GA, and I find it's worth it.
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Old May 12th, 2014, 09:24 PM   #1689
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
An alternative solution is to arrange seats with fewer facing sets and most of them parallel (airplane-style). That way, you can easy have a table installed on the back of the seat in front.
These sets will have a mixture of airline style and facing seats. The fact is however that the Swiss prefer facing seats.
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Old May 12th, 2014, 09:49 PM   #1690
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I doubt it's just Swiss. It allows you to have a conversation with more than one person and to have more space if the train is not full.
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Old May 12th, 2014, 09:58 PM   #1691
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I doubt it's just Swiss. It allows you to have a conversation with more than one person and to have more space if the train is not full.
What is the profile of traveler parties in CH? Mostly groups of 3 or more?

Are trains often below 50% capacity?
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Old May 12th, 2014, 10:18 PM   #1692
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Are trains often below 50% capacity?
Considering all long distance trains, I think loading factor is around 30-40%.

But that's inevitable, giving the fact that Swiss timetable is regular interval and symmetric.

(on a side note, detractors of public transport like to say that "trains/buses are always empty", but never, never, never say that most cars have a loading factor of 20%...)
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Old May 12th, 2014, 10:31 PM   #1693
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
What is the profile of traveler parties in CH? Mostly groups of 3 or more?
It's mostly alone of course, but when you do have a larger company this arrangement is appreciated.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Are trains often below 50% capacity?
I commute to work with a train and it's about 70-80% in IR, close to 100% or above for the first few stops with S-Bahn. If I happen to take the same train late in the evening (around 8 pm) then it's ca 20%. That's for the second class, the first one is almost always below 50%.
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Old May 13th, 2014, 12:15 AM   #1694
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That sounds more or less similar with my experiences with Dutch railways, altho lately occupance has seem to go up as NS has seemed to master the skill of optimizing rolling stock utilisation.

First class is mostly < 50% once you kick out everyone who shouldn't be there. A while ago I took a night train from Schiphol to Breda, it left Schiphol at 1 AM and first class was full. Tickets were inspected 3 times during the trip, and each time people got kicked out. Upon arrival in Breda, I was the only one left in first.
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Old May 13th, 2014, 12:20 AM   #1695
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post

What is the profile of traveler parties in CH? Mostly groups of 3 or more?

Are trains often below 50% capacity?
Coincidentally there was in a couple of 'via' magazine ago an article precisely on that subject, explaining that not only a vast majority of train users prefer the 4-seat arrangement, but also that it allows to carry more seats on each coach since the back room between seats which is used as storage space for the baggage would otherwise have to be created in the extremes of the coaches and the result is a lower seat density, so it's all advantages ;-) will try to find it when I get to be on the computer
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Old May 13th, 2014, 12:47 AM   #1696
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I usually travel alone and then I prefer to have an airline style seat layout, as I have more legroom this way. When travelling together with someone I do prefer sitting across, as we can see each other more easily then.

My ideal layout for the interior of a train would be to have one half airline style, and the other half vis-a-vis.
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Old May 13th, 2014, 10:27 AM   #1697
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While I'm alone I don't care too much about seat arrangments. When in group
then of course facing seats are better. But in both case the most important
is that seats are aligned with windows...
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Old May 13th, 2014, 02:16 PM   #1698
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From Rail Journal:

Quote:
http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...ml?channel=542

Go-ahead for new Albula Tunnel
Tuesday, May 13, 2014



RHAETIAN Railways (RhB) announced on May 12 that the Swiss Federal Ministry of Transport (BAV) has granted a construction permit for the construction of the new 5.9km Albula Tunnel on the metre-gauge line from Chur to St Moritz

The new tunnel between Preda and Spina stations will replace the existing single-track tunnel, which dates back to the opening of the line in 1903 and is now a UNESCO World Heritage site.

A survey of the tunnel in 2006 found extensive renovation work would be required to bring the tunnel up to modern standards. RhB subsequently decided to build a new tunnel, which would cost only slightly more than upgrading the existing structure and would also minimise disruption to traffic.

Preparatory works will begin immediately and full construction is expected to begin next year on the SFr 345m ($US 389m) project, with commissioning scheduled for the end of 2020. The existing tunnel will be converted into a service tunnel by the end of 2021, and will be linked to the new tunnel by 12 cross passages
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Old May 13th, 2014, 02:20 PM   #1699
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcVD View Post
While I'm alone I don't care too much about seat arrangments. When in group
then of course facing seats are better. But in both case the most important
is that seats are aligned with windows...
Facing seats on full trains are bad for solo travelers, at least for me. Being on the direct line of sight of a stranger that is not there for some special reason is always bothering, and you can't stretch your legs without violating most accepted social norms about personal space. At least this is how I think.
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Old May 13th, 2014, 06:47 PM   #1700
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Facing seats on full trains are bad for solo travelers, at least for me. Being on the direct line of sight of a stranger that is not there for some special reason is always bothering, and you can't stretch your legs without violating most accepted social norms about personal space. At least this is how I think.
Found it

http://www.cff.ch/groupe/medias/publications/via/archives.html

From february edition:

Quote:
Pourquoi est-on assis face à face en train?

Ils se disputent déjà en montant dans le tram,se jettent sur des sièges l’un derrière l’autre etcontinuent à se chamailler. La scène est bienconnue des utilisateurs des TP, mais plutôtrare dans les trains puisqu’en Suisse, lessièges en vis-à-vis y sont très appréciés. C’esten tout cas ce qui ressort d’un sondage réalisépar les CFF auprès de ses clients. 72 %préfèrent voyager selon cette configuration,et même 99 % des personnes voyageant accompagnées dans le cadre de leurs loisirs. Il semblerait que nous, les Suisses, soyons unpeuple remarquablement sociable – du moinsquand nous prenons le train.

Plusieurs arguments techniques solidesplaident toutefois aussi en faveur du compartimentà quatre places. Assis en vis-à-vis, lespassagers peuvent plus facilement laisserpasser de nouveaux arrivants, même encombrésde bagages. De plus, cette dispositioncrée des niches à bagages entre les dossiersqui permettent de conserver les valises àportée de main – ce qui n’est pas le cas des«sièges aviation»,c’est-à-dire disposés enligne, où l’on doit déposerses bagages dans descompartiments à l’entrée.Chose curieuse, lescompartiments à quatreplaces offrent au bout du compte plus deplaces assises que les sièges aviation. Celapeut sembler à première vue illogique, étantdonné qu’on peut mettre plus de sièges enenfilade que de compartiments de quatre dansune voiture. Mais les compartiments àbagages et les passagers bloquant des siègesavec leurs sacs suppriment cet avantage.Continuons donc à discuter avec notrevis-à-vis, par exemple de ces odieux siègesen enfilade


Google translation

Quote:
Why are we sitting face to face in the train ?


They already compete riding in the tram , throw themselves on seats one behind the other and continue to bicker . The scene is familiar to users of TP , but rare in Switzerland since trains, seats vis- à-vis are very appreciated. It is in any case what emerges from a survey conducted by SBB to its customers . 72% prefer to travel in this configuration, and even 99% of people traveling together as part of their leisure time. It seems that we , the Swiss , let a remarkably friendly people - at least when we take the train.

However, several strong technical arguments also support the four-seat compartment . Sitting vis- à-vis passengers can more easily pass newcomers , even crowded baggage . In addition, this provision creates niches luggage between folders which keep the bags àportée hand - which is not the case of " seats aviation " , that is to say willing enligne , where must file its luggage compartment at the entrance. Curiously, the four-seater compartments provide ultimately more displaced foundation that aviation seats. This may seem illogical at first sight, since it can put more seats in a row as four compartments in a car. But the baggage compartments and passengers blocking seats with their bags eliminate this avantage.Continuons therefore discuss with notrevis -à-vis , for example these heinous row seats


i.e. 72% of swiss people prefer 4-seats compartments, as do 99% of those who travel with others.
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