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Old October 20th, 2010, 06:09 AM   #201
invincible
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deasine View Post
They look great, but I'm not so sue about that bright lime-yellow on the doors.
It's the whole Disability Discrimination Act and all of its mandates. Bright yellow doors, poles, etc. It's actually going to require the non-low-floor fleet to be replaced over the next 15 years. That said, I doubt that will be the final livery so it's hard to know what they'll end up looking like.

As for heritage trams - they should be kept around only if they're not an impediment to the rest of the network. There are far too many people calling for them to be retained forever but they are terrible on commuter routes given that the basic design is almost 90 years old. There are still a couple of minor routes that are operated using these vehicles but their replacement couldn't come sooner.

Also, the Citadis trams loaned from Mulhouse are likely to stay in Melbourne forever, with the government in negotiations to purchase the trams at the end of their lease.
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Old March 4th, 2011, 11:52 PM   #202
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Many people says that Melbourne has the largest tram network of the world, but I read in many sites that it is the largest tram network in Southern Hemisphere, not in world. Is it true?
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Old March 10th, 2011, 04:04 PM   #203
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Amazing Melbourne!
In my city is under construction with the 1st metro-tram line (the project are 3 lines).
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Old March 13th, 2011, 03:25 PM   #204
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Melbourne at least showed corrage for not closing their very large tram network, whereas Brisbane, Hobart, Perth & Sydney foolishly followed the then anti-tram craze of world.

All commuters, workers, unions, environmentalists & all over Sir Robert Risson were very much positive and serious about tram. Additionally I read Melbourne has many wider and good geometrically patterned roads, which was ideal for a world class tram network. Tram is so popular that some suburban rail lines have also converted to tram line!!!

I’m especially in favor of Melbourne tram, because around 1996, some tram drivers & conductors have come to Kolkata, my city for KOLKATA – MELBOURNE TRAMWAY FREINDSHIP. Especially Roberto Nuncio D’andrea, a conductor of now closed South Melbourne tram depot, has traveled the complete tram network with some of his colleagues. He drove a tram at our Belgachhia Depot, served as a conductor on a modified tram on our route 36, and modified some tram like Melbourne. He gave us some photos of Melbourne’s tram network and some photo postcards. He also had taken away some dresses of our drivers & conductors as souvenirs. The festival continued around one month. Then transport minister Late Subhash Chakrabarti was also (fake) interested about tram.

Mr. D’andrea & his team suggested many ways for improving Kolkata’s tram network, some temporary works were also done, but we know West Bengal govt. is not serious about tram. They are very casual.

Kolkata’s tram system is running since 1880 as horse tram, as steam tram from 1900 and as electric tram since 1902. It is the only tram network of India, and the oldest operating electric tram network of Asia. It has 36 routes.

Extend more and more tram routes at Melbourne.

At last a question. I read Melbourne is planning to open a metro, but after looking the map, I think it will not be a real metrom but will be another underground suburban rail line. Am I correct?
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Old March 14th, 2011, 03:28 PM   #205
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Yes that's correct. The proposal basically bypasses the congested inner city loop by connecting 2 suburban commuter rail lines via a cross city tunnel. So no it won't technically be a metro but frequencies will more than likely be a minimum of every 5 minutes. The first stage will see the construction of 5 new underground stations. Funding still hasn't been secured however and the new Government has yet to commit to it unfortunately.
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Old March 17th, 2011, 08:00 PM   #206
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I am totally amazed to see that tram is so popular in Melbourne, that it has replaced two electrified suburban rail lines!!! We can’t imagine it in Kolkata. Neither closed or goods line, a passenger line closed. Hats of to Melbourne.

I’ve some questions (arose after viewing some websites). Please answer one by one –
1) Will route 3 be extended to the East Malvern railway station or Chad stone Shopping Centre?
2) Will route 6 be extended to Ash Burton station?
3) Will route 8 be extended to Hartwell station?
4) Will route 16 be extended to Kew Junction in Kew?
5) Will route 72 be extended to North Kew or Ivanhoe, and also south to Caulfield?
6) Will route 72 be extended from Burke Road, Balwyn to Heidelberg?
7) Will there be a new routefrom Don caster, via Box Hill, to Bur wood?
8) Will there be a new routefrom Highpoint, via Maid stone, to Sunshine?
9) Will there be a new routefrom Moonee Ponds, along Ormond and Brunswick Roads, to Clifton Hill station?
10) Will there be a new inner south tram link between City of Port Phillip and City of Stonington by connecting route 112 with route 8 via Park Street?
11) Will route 67 be extended to the Carnegie Station?
12) Will route 75 be extended to the Knox City Shopping Centre?
13) Will route 48 be extended to Don caster Shopping Centre?
14) Will there be a 5 kilometer new tram link between St Kilda, Victoria and Port Melbourne along Beaconsfield Parade?
15) Will there be a new tram route from Melbourne to Port Melbourne and/or Garden City via Lorimar Street?
16) Will Route 86 be extended from the Docklands along Foots Cray Road to Foots Cray station?
17) Will route 19 be extended to Fawkner?
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Old March 31st, 2011, 07:56 PM   #207
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Please try to answer these -
1) What is the target year of extending route 3, 6, 8, 16, 19, 48, 65, 72, 75 & 86?
2) What is the target year of opening new tram route to Doncaster, Highpoint, Mooneeponds and inner south tram link?
3) Reserved or unreserved, - which type of track layout is common in Melbourne tramway network?
4) Which is the busiest tram terminus?
5) Which termini have interchange facility with suburban rail network?
5) Where is/are the depot(s) of the tramway network?
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Old April 14th, 2011, 09:46 PM   #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashis Mitra View Post
Many people says that Melbourne has the largest tram network of the world, but I read in many sites that it is the largest tram network in Southern Hemisphere, not in world. Is it true?
The only real contester was St. Petersberg in Russia, but not any more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashis Mitra View Post
Please try to answer these -
1) What is the target year of extending route 3, 6, 8, 16, 19, 48, 65, 72, 75 & 86?
2) What is the target year of opening new tram route to Doncaster, Highpoint, Mooneeponds and inner south tram link?
3) Reserved or unreserved, - which type of track layout is common in Melbourne tramway network?
4) Which is the busiest tram terminus?
5) Which termini have interchange facility with suburban rail network?
5) Where is/are the depot(s) of the tramway network?
Hi Ashis Mitra,

In regard to the questions you pose above:
  1. I'm not aware of any plans to extend tram network at the moment. The news tonight indicated that the trackwork along Docklands Esplanade, which affects several routes, was being repositioned.
  2. There is already a Moonee Ponds- Highpoint- Footscray service: they are upgrading the terminus at Footscray at the moment, in quite a big way. If you want to know about any proposed line to Doncaster, perhaps email Premier Baillieu.

  3. Most (but not all) track on the Melbourne system is what I would presume you call "unreserved": that is, shared with other vehicles. However, large sections run on their own easements: about 10 km,for instance, are converted railway lines:



    Tram at South Melbourne Station: formerly a heavy-rail suburban line


    Some lines run through parks, or along dedicated median strips. Notably lately, the construction of raised platforms ("superstops") in the middle of the street has both diminuished private vehicle traffic and enhanced the use of the tram system.






    "Superstop" in Collins St. West (corner of Spencer St.)


  4. The busiest tram "station" in the world is at the crossing of Swanston St. & Flinders Street in the centre of the city:







    the busiest terminus would be at Melbourne University. Nine points, or "switches" here leading into three sidings in the middle of the street, to terminate 10 lines.





    shunting facilities at Melbourne University (Swanston Street)


  5. There are numerous places where the tram & train systems interchange. Not all are tram terminii, but a notable terminus is in Elizibeth Street, where the 19,59 & 57 services terminate at Flinders St. Station.




    Elizibeth St. Tram Terminus: Flinders St. Station in background.



    Elizibeth Street Tram Terminus

  6. There are a number of depots on the system, both ancient and modern. The Kew Depot includes a sort of Museum, and there is indeed a historical Tram Museum outside of the city at Bylands. I won't publish the location of tram depots here.

Last edited by Yardmaster; April 15th, 2011 at 02:22 AM.
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Old July 27th, 2011, 08:19 PM   #209
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Recent developments on the Melbourne Tram System:

Tram tracks were laid about 100mm higher in Spencer Street, to deter vehicular traffic from venturing into tram lanes:



At Footscray, in the west of the city, a new tram terminus is being constructed. Not quite complete yet: yes, we do have trams that run to the Moon.



The 86 Route- one of the longest, extending to almost 20 km from the CBD- is being upgraded through the inner suburb of Northcote. Since "High Street" is rather narrow, this has involved laying island rather than facing platforms in the middle of the street. So far two island & one traditional stop have been implemented. The Rutger's Hill stop isn't in operation yet, but it looks like it might be the most scenic tram-stop in Melbourne:



Yarra Trams has produced a new map of the system, with colour-coding for each line, etc., etc. : somewhat like this effort produced in 1998:



Things have changed significantly since. Apart from route numbering etc., I can identify 6 major changes to the map. The new map:



A close-up of the north end of the City:



And the south:



Of interest here:

The Melbourne Tram System frequently presents itself as the largest network in the world, after the St. Petersberg network jumped out of the competition.

As I understand it, there are c. 240 km of double track- as a result of enquiry recently I determined that 68km of that was on it's own easeway. This doesn't mean that it doesn't - at some place- cross road or other traffic "at grade".

Not that I dwell on this, but Melbournites do tend to pat them themselves on the chest for not abandoning fixed rail transport in the streets: like everyone else in the hemisphere. We have 68km of 243 (I think) of what's our secondary mode of public transport operating on their own thoroughfares ... I woudn't be hanging my head in shame over that.

An old map of the proposed extensions to the system:


Last edited by Yardmaster; July 27th, 2011 at 11:09 PM.
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Old July 28th, 2011, 01:05 AM   #210
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Are there any underground stations on the Melboure trams?
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Old July 28th, 2011, 05:47 AM   #211
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Quote:
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Are there any underground stations on the Melboure trams?
No, but there was a proposal to route the busiest tram corridor into a tunnel somewhat in the 1970s or so under Swanston Street which has since then been dropped out of favour for a railway tunnel down the same alignment.

The railway tunnel was brought forwards by the previous incumbent government in 2006-ish (which has since then been voted out), but has since then been dropped out of favour by the newly voted in state government last year in favour for additional services to the suburbs instead of the denser inner city. (Or something along those lines)

As for the Melbourne's trams having their right of way, it is marginally acceptable but I think it can be a lot better than what we have now. I believe that a radical shift is needed before we choke to death from traffic congestion.
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Old July 28th, 2011, 11:25 AM   #212
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Melbourne has a ridiculous number of tram stops. That's my main "issue" with the system. You could easily get rid of half of them and speed the entire system up.
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Old July 28th, 2011, 07:35 PM   #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Planks & Sticks View Post
No, but there was a proposal to route the busiest tram corridor into a tunnel somewhat in the 1970s or so under Swanston Street which has since then been dropped out of favour for a railway tunnel down the same alignment.

The railway tunnel was brought forwards by the previous incumbent government in 2006-ish (which has since then been voted out), but has since then been dropped out of favour by the newly voted in state government last year in favour for additional services to the suburbs instead of the denser inner city. (Or something along those lines)

As for the Melbourne's trams having their right of way, it is marginally acceptable but I think it can be a lot better than what we have now. I believe that a radical shift is needed before we choke to death from traffic congestion.
Perhaps burying some of the tramway lines could be a good solution. It's how Boston's Green Line came to be, after all.

Grade separation could ease congestion in Melbourne.
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Old July 29th, 2011, 05:01 PM   #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Planks & Sticks View Post
No, but there was a proposal to route the busiest tram corridor into a tunnel somewhat in the 1970s or so under Swanston Street which has since then been dropped out of favour for a railway tunnel down the same alignment.

The railway tunnel was brought forwards by the previous incumbent government in 2006-ish (which has since then been voted out), but has since then been dropped out of favour by the newly voted in state government last year in favour for additional services to the suburbs instead of the denser inner city. (Or something along those lines)

As for the Melbourne's trams having their right of way, it is marginally acceptable but I think it can be a lot better than what we have now. I believe that a radical shift is needed before we choke to death from traffic congestion.
In fact, I haven't heard of alternate proposals ... anyway, let's keep this "Melbourne Tram" thread just for that, & post the alternate stuff in the appproriate thread.

Melbourne - or Yarra - Trams actually command about a couple of kilometres more of segregated track than I previously listed above. I should have stated that my figures were based on personal research, not official releases. In my experience, it would take a long time to come up with official figures , which would require at least getting the Opposition Minister of Transport on side, & would take many months.

The number of tram stops has and is dimuinshing significantly in Melbourne, most notably by the construction of raised platforms ("super-stops") frequently I would guess halving the number of stops along the route.

The stops have always been numbered: so please take me to task on this if you wish.
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Old September 5th, 2011, 01:30 AM   #215
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I saw in Wikipedia that Melbourne has 250 Km, whereas Sofia has 330 Km. of tram lines, so how Melbourne could be said that has the largest tram network of the World?

Melbourne's tram is largest in south Hemisphere.
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Old January 9th, 2012, 05:17 PM   #216
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Anyone for 30m double-decker tram's?

Melbourne's over-crowded trams could do with something like this to make the trip a little more pleasant. ...Or even a fleet of these on a light rail route like Doncaster.
https://sites.google.com/site/pagelink07
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Old January 9th, 2012, 09:00 PM   #217
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Quote:
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[*]The busiest tram "station" in the world is at the crossing of Swanston St. & Flinders Street in the centre of the city:
Do you have any statistics on that station? Number of trams per hour, number of passenger per hour?

P.S.: Those pictures bring back some good memories.
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Old January 10th, 2012, 01:23 AM   #218
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Quote:
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Do you have any statistics on that station? Number of trams per hour, number of passenger per hour?

P.S.: Those pictures bring back some good memories.
There's not a "station" as such, just two tramlines crossing each other at right angles, one on Swanston St, one on Flinders St. They each have a stop at that corner but at right angles to each other - not the same stop. The Swanston St route does have a possible claim to be the world's busiest corridor because about 60 trams an hour (one per minute) pass along it in peak.

This is not actually a great achievement because there is little leeway for problems. When something goes wrong it goes badly wrong. The system design in the CBD does not have have many opportunities to turn onto an alternative route if something goes wrong. "Too many eggs in one basket"!

(I think you can see the problem in some of the photos above!)
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Old January 10th, 2012, 08:23 AM   #219
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You don't have to explain me the situation, I have been there
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Old January 27th, 2013, 02:11 AM   #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by historyworks View Post
There's not a "station" as such, just two tramlines crossing each other at right angles, one on Swanston St, one on Flinders St. They each have a stop at that corner but at right angles to each other - not the same stop. The Swanston St route does have a possible claim to be the world's busiest corridor because about 60 trams an hour (one per minute) pass along it in peak.

This is not actually a great achievement because there is little leeway for problems. When something goes wrong it goes badly wrong. The system design in the CBD does not have have many opportunities to turn onto an alternative route if something goes wrong. "Too many eggs in one basket"!

(I think you can see the problem in some of the photos above!)
well, you can judge for yourself.

St Vincent's Interchange:



Melbourne University:



Flinders Street:






Footscray: (it's going to Moonee Ponds but I was too quick with the camera)



University interchange: note the triple sidings for shunting.



Collins Street:



Collins St. West:



St. Kilda Road:



It may once have been the case that tracks just crossed in the bitumen, but that was a long, long time ago.

And ... not only are there fewer stops, but street railways are much more responsive to disruption than fixed rail. If one street is out, you switch to another:



Most of the inner-city stops have LCD displays these days, indicating the time of arrival and destination of the next four or so trams.

Last edited by Yardmaster; January 27th, 2013 at 02:54 AM.
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