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Old April 25th, 2008, 02:44 AM   #121
invincible
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The Mulhouse trams are still under testing and not yet in service. There are a few pictures available at the following link: http://vicsig.net/index.php?page=tra...class=Mulhouse

Vehicle number is 5101.
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Old April 28th, 2008, 09:23 AM   #122
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The new island platform "superstop" opened this weekend outside Flinders Street Station: it was bristling with Yarra Trams staff (in the lime green jackets) today, just to make sure everything went OK :





There are two other "superstops" at the station, at right-angles to the one above. This one handles the Swanston Street traffic:



And this one handles the traffic in Elizabeth Street:


Last edited by Yardmaster; April 28th, 2008 at 11:51 AM.
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Old April 28th, 2008, 11:44 AM   #123
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^new one looks cool, thanks for the pics!
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Old April 28th, 2008, 05:49 PM   #124
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A question:
Critics of trams say that since trams mix with traffic they:
1. Could be dangerous as they can collide with vehicles, pedestrians
2. Could be slowed by traffic.

What is the experience in Melbourne with trams? Any accidents? Is traveling by tram any faster than taking the bus?

Thanks
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Old April 28th, 2008, 07:00 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weiaze View Post
A question:
Critics of trams say that since trams mix with traffic they:
1. Could be dangerous as they can collide with vehicles, pedestrians
2. Could be slowed by traffic.

What is the experience in Melbourne with trams? Any accidents? Is traveling by tram any faster than taking the bus?

Thanks
Can't say that they are more prone to accidents than buses: in fact, I would suspect much less, since everyone knows that the streets with trams in them aren't drag-strips.

In the last eighteen months or so there were a couple of incidents: but no serious injuries. When a tram gets in a prang it features on the nightly TV news bulletin, moreso because privatising the operation of public transport here was politically contentious, and people wonder whether this sort of thing is happening due to cost-cutting of one sort or another.

As regards speed, well, it isn't fantastic, but it's difficult to compare with bus here, because bus essentially operates feeder routes here. Tram does get specially priority at traffic lights: separate signals, for a start, and I understand the tram driver can sort of "push" his or her way through, but I'm not sure how this is done.

About 20% of the tram network is on its own right-of-way: and they can get up a decent speed along the converted railway lines. The simple fact is, however, that with 1,700 stops in 250 km, that's 7 stops per kilometre (if required), and as I've said, some of those stops handle 40,000 people a day. I think I mentioned earlier: on the main north-south route, trams carry three-quarters of the entire traffic load.



waiting for the tram, after the Triathalon, Commonwealth Games, St Kilda, 2006

To be honest, I can't imagine how you'd carry this volume of traffic using buses: it's not point-to-point; on some routes it's hundreds of people trying to get on (several trams!) at each stop. I read an interesting discussion here tonight over whether Toronto should let passengers enter through anything but the front door of their street-cars (and you only enter our buses through the front door): just wouldn't do.

Last edited by Yardmaster; May 27th, 2008 at 07:37 PM.
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Old April 30th, 2008, 09:14 PM   #126
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Melbourne's busiest tramstop- at Federation Square, serving nine routes, and a further three tram routes along Flinders Street, were blocked for 22 hours on the last day of April by a "sit-down" of taxi-drivers in one of the busiest intersections of the city. This blocked approximately 1700 tram services travelling through the CBD.

The drivers were agrieved over a knife-attack by a passenger on a driver on the previous night, which resulted in the driver being seriously (although not fatally) wounded. They threatened to block access to the city's airport as well.



photo: Melbourne Herald-Sun


Although it was a chilly morning (by Melbourne standards) the drivers- mainly Indian- removed their upper clothing, for reasons which have been variously interpretted. The Minister for Transport- whom they targetted through this demonstration- initially refused to negotiate with them until they cleared the blockade, but eventually she relented. Taxis in Melbourne are an entirely private operation, but the taxi-drivers held the public of Melbourne- and the Government- to ramsom, until they obtained their demands.

The Government conceded:
  • to pay c. 1/2 of the expense involved to install "security walls" in all of the taxis in Melbourne
  • to permit taxi drivers to demand payment in advance for fares after 10 pm.
  • to waive all parking fines etc. associated with this incident.


From what I have seen so far, the response has been far from positive. The "Herald-Sun" (who provided the photo) ran a "have your say" thread, which seemed to demonstrate a considerable amount of anger over this, and gave rise to a substantial amount of racism.

Personally, I use taxis very rarely (and like most of us, trams more often!) As many people commented in that thread, many drivers don't know where they're going (and need to be directed!). I always feel the need to direct the driver. I'd be very wary about putting up the fare in advance, especially once a wall has been constructed between me and the driver.

And it pisses me off no end that these guys held maybe 50% of the tram system up for a day: just to demand the Government provide improvements to their cabs.

Last edited by Yardmaster; May 1st, 2008 at 12:47 AM.
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Old May 1st, 2008, 04:36 AM   #127
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It was very immature and stupid of them to do that. And for them to all take their shirts off as well? What kind of 'mob mentallity' do they adhere to?

Then they all started getting violent with each other, and left their rubbish laying around (tonnes of it) when they left. The head of the taxi union was on Sunrise this morning denying that happened. What an arse!

Taxi drivers deserve saftey, but they barely deserve respect.
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Old May 1st, 2008, 03:56 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maelstrom View Post
It was very immature and stupid of them to do that. And for them to all take their shirts off as well? What kind of 'mob mentallity' do they adhere to?

Then they all started getting violent with each other, and left their rubbish laying around (tonnes of it) when they left. The head of the taxi union was on Sunrise this morning denying that happened. What an arse!

Taxi drivers deserve saftey, but they barely deserve respect.
last year my friend,a Malaysian student got a job where he was to recalibrate the taxi meters. He was astonished that a taxi driver tried to bribe him with..haha..just $20 to tweak his meter to his advantage. Of course he just shrugged off the offer ..I mean it's just $20 and my friend already a scholarship recipient..he aint' that desperate for $20 ...but since then he says that Melburnian taxi drivers are no different than KL's and that's a great insult.
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Old May 1st, 2008, 05:05 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yardmaster View Post
Can't say that they are more prone to accidents than buses: in fact, I would suspect much less, since everyone knows that the streets with trams in them aren't drag-strips.
There's more accidents in Melbourne involving trams than involving buses. A lot more infact. Usually caused by:

A: Moron car drivers
B: Moron truck drivers
C: Moron tram drivers
D: C and either A or B.

As for the taxi strike - what a joke! Pre-paid fares at night will simply put me off using taxis even more.
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Old May 1st, 2008, 05:11 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BroadGauge View Post
There's more accidents in Melbourne involving trams than involving buses. A lot more infact. Usually caused by:
I imagine that they're abit quieter wouldn't help either. Pretty hard to ignore a bus usually.
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Old May 1st, 2008, 05:11 PM   #131
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Quote:
The drivers were agrieved over a knife-attack by a passenger on a driver on the previous night
It irritates me that such actions happen as an immediate response, without trying to negotiate first. Although I do hear that they might have been trying for a while, in which case it's more acceptable. I personally don't think it's going to earn them any respect for doing such a thing without warning / permits etc. Fair enough at peoples right to protest, but making other people late for things just because you can is pretty shameful.

Quote:
And it pisses me off no end that these guys held maybe 50% of the tram system up for a day
At least if it was a bus it could go around :o
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Old May 4th, 2008, 05:20 AM   #132
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Some of my photos





Love the old ones Why aren't many trams kept in green and gold these days



















City Circle Trams





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Old May 4th, 2008, 11:44 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by invincible View Post
The Mulhouse trams are still under testing and not yet in service. There are a few pictures available at the following link: http://vicsig.net/index.php?page=tra...=5101&class=C2

Vehicle number is 5101.
Merci pour ce lien pour voir les photos du tramway 2023 de Mulhouse rouler ā Melbourne.
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Old May 16th, 2008, 10:25 AM   #134
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- edit

Last edited by Yardmaster; May 27th, 2008 at 07:42 PM.
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Old May 18th, 2008, 11:32 AM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BroadGauge
Here is a high-quality photo of D1. arriving at the Glen Iris terminus of an evening with some nice stormy lighting:
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=221832
One more pic
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Old May 20th, 2008, 05:22 PM   #136
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Here is a 1970s built Z1 class tram, withdrawn and stored at Newport Workshops. Many of these still run in Melbourne, but most have been withdrawn and either sold or scrapped.
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=205989
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Old May 21st, 2008, 12:03 PM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BroadGauge View Post
There's more accidents in Melbourne involving trams than involving buses. A lot more infact.
Since I found this assertion rather unlikely, I checked it out with the Transport Accident Commission. Here's what they gave back to me:



This lists no. of casualties (injuries & fatalities) rather than collisions on-road: I was hoping for both. It also includes regional data, where there are lots of buses but very few trams. However, it should be noted that tram-trips out-number bus trips in Melbourne approximately 2 to 1 (156 to 87 million passengers/annum), and Melbourne accounts for the vast majority of public transport trips within the state.

Obviously, however, if what you asserted was true:

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroadGauge View Post
There's more accidents in Melbourne involving trams than involving buses. A lot more infact.
bus collisions must be far more dangerous that tram collisions!
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Old May 21st, 2008, 03:01 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yardmaster View Post
bus collisions must be far more dangerous that tram collisions!
Most fatalities on the road occur in regional areas on poorer roads. One assumes if this applies to cars it also applies to buses. Thus the more dangerous accidents would be occuring in areas where trams don't run. I'd also wager that even though more trips are done on trams, many many more KM's will be done on buses.

Interestingly there were 23 tram collisions in 2004 and 23 in 2005 with 63 from mid 2004 to mid 2007.

In just 1 of the 63 accidents where they give specific details, 12 people were taken to hospital with serious injuries, 8 more had minor injuries. According to Yarra Trams this didn't represent any increase in accidents.

So I'd question the accuracy of the TAC's statistics. On the one hand they seem to be missing what you would regard as serious injuries on the other there's no way all of those were fatalities. Is it possible those are just the number of people that requested compensation or some such ?

There seems to be quite a large number of trams colliding with each other, whereas most buses I've seen tend to collide with other traffic. The only reason I can think of that trams mange to hit each other so often is that they're running closer than vehicles on rails can safely. Also being that trams can't swerve and have longer breaking distances, while still having to interact with other traffic.
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Old May 21st, 2008, 03:17 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shado View Post
Most fatalities on the road occur in regional areas on poorer roads. One assumes if this applies to cars it also applies to buses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shado View Post
Interestingly there were 23 tram collisions in 2004 and 23 in 2005 with 63 from mid 2004 to mid 2007. In just 1 of the 63 accidents where they give specific details, 12 people were taken to hospital with serious injuries, 8 more had minor injuries. According to Yarra Trams this didn't represent any increase in accidents.

So I'd question the accuracy of the TAC's statistics.
OK, so do you have any alternate statistics? Quoting one accident can hardly be generalized to the other 63: especially when you're quoting what was the worst and most notable accident that made headlines.
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Old May 22nd, 2008, 05:24 PM   #140
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Congratulations Yardy for twisting my words, as you usually do.

Compare metropolitan bus services with metropolitan tram services for this one. There are no regional trams for comparison. You can't say that because of an accident involving a school bus on a dirt road in Red Cliffs, buses are safer than trams, which only run in urban streets of the capital city. Compare like for like - it's what they'd tell you to do at religious camp

And just for a reminder:
- don't include charter buses. ONLY MELBOURNE ROUTE BUSES
- don't compare the total number of bus accidents in victoria to the total number of tram accidents - pointless and makes you look like a tool
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