South East London Projects

[potto]

Originally Posted by Smarty

Sorry but I find that a load of tosh. I used to live in an interwar block in Kennington of a similar style and it was one of the best flats I lived in The construction was excellent, there was no sound from neighbouring flats, it was easy to heat in winter, it had two properly double sized bedrooms and a kitchen that easily allowed a good sized table and eating area. The whole block had been privatised in the early 80's as a test case for privatisation and was well maintained. The communal areas were clean, the shared gardens were used for group BBQ's and parties through the summer and there was a proper community spirit. The tenants' association meetings were the best attended I've ever attended because people cared about their block. I've lived in many different types of flat but none were as nice to live in as that block and none had such a good sense of community.

Most of these blocks are still council run and the council fails to make the best of them / use their space imaginatively. Given a bit of TLC they make excellent places to live.

maybe. I was more referring to the wider urban design aspect. They were basically built at that confused time of the Rural/Urban dichotomy that infected the country after the imperial dream fell on its nose. Their form just isn't urban, just an utter mess even when a couple of blocks infect a tight urban grain they cause chaos. There is no desire to navigate them therefore there is no identity. Obviously I am coming from an ideal angle I just think its a sad indictment that people feel these sorts of builds are the pinnacle of mass housing design.

[.Adam]

Does anybody know what they are developing here.. its located infront of the Laban centre, just behind Deptford Bridge, I only caught a quick rubbish photo from the DLR.

[Blindfold]

A report by the GLA regarding the near completion of this regeneration scheme. Note Point 11 where it staes that Southwark Council only had to re-house 87 households as the rest of the flats on the estates were squatted or sub-let.
http://legacy.london.gov.uk/mayor/pl...ham_report.pdf

[Smarty]

Originally Posted by potto

maybe. I was more referring to the wider urban design aspect. They were basically built at that confused time of the Rural/Urban dichotomy that infected the country after the imperial dream fell on its nose. Their form just isn't urban, just an utter mess even when a couple of blocks infect a tight urban grain they cause chaos. There is no desire to navigate them therefore there is no identity. Obviously I am coming from an ideal angle I just think its a sad indictment that people feel these sorts of builds are the pinnacle of mass housing design.

Fair enough. What annoys me though is that there are so many really crap blocks of flats in the surrounding area that aren't being pulled down. Just around the corner in Yalding Road are some really terrible 70's blocks that really don't work on any level. The Four Squares estate behind Bermondsey tube station is also pretty dreadful and has a terrible crime problem. But they seem to be staying (although admittedly they're outside of the Spa Regeneration Area).

[Officer Dibble]

There's something solid-looking about those blocks, and my experience is that flats like that are generously sized, although often with low ceilings, so it's not impossible to imagine a major refurb/reclad working. But I doubt it's worth it, given that you'd want to get away from the walk-up model, add lifts, replace the roofs altogether... The Bermondsey Spa developments have been of decent quality so far; I'd be amazed if the replacements aren't an improvement on the blocks under demolition.

Entirely true that there are worse things around. Is Four Squares that series of buildings behind Jamaica Road Piazza? It's truly dreadful.

Incidentally I appreciate their efforts to smarten it up a bit, but I wish they hadn't branded it a piazza. This is a piazza:


And, while we're at it, here's what Jamaica Road used to look like.

[Smarty]

Originally Posted by Officer Dibble

Entirely true that there are worse things around. Is Four Squares that series of buildings behind Jamaica Road Piazza? It's truly dreadful.

Yep - that's it. It has no redeeming features whatsoever.

Re Jamaica Road, 3 or 4 of those houses are still standing in isolation between the tube station and St James's Road. My neighbour is aged 82 and has lived in the area all his life - he remembers which houses were destroyed by bombing in WW2 and which were destroyed by post war development. He also remembers when those double decker trams used to go through the Rotherhithe Tunnel - amazingly. You wouldn't have believed that there was enough room.

[SELondoner]

Originally Posted by Smarty

He also remembers when those double decker trams used to go through the Rotherhithe Tunnel - amazingly. You wouldn't have believed that there was enough room.

He's probably thinking of the double deck buses that used to use the tunnel, but trams used to hang a right and head down Lower Road towards Deptford.

Here's a couple of trams going along Jamaica Road from dewi.ca:




And a bus coming out of the tunnel from http://www.mikesbuspages.com/londontransport.htm

[cybertect]

Originally Posted by Smarty

Re Jamaica Road, 3 or 4 of those houses are still standing in isolation between the tube station and St James's Road.

These ones, I think (excuse the bus)

[SF-02]

Originally Posted by potto

maybe. I was more referring to the wider urban design aspect. They were basically built at that confused time of the Rural/Urban dichotomy that infected the country after the imperial dream fell on its nose. Their form just isn't urban, just an utter mess even when a couple of blocks infect a tight urban grain they cause chaos. There is no desire to navigate them therefore there is no identity. Obviously I am coming from an ideal angle I just think its a sad indictment that people feel these sorts of builds are the pinnacle of mass housing design.

I'm intrigued to know what you mean when you say the form isn't urban? Are you refering to this area in particualar or 30s blocks in general? I have just moved into a 1930s block and it seems an ideal model for housing people in inner London. The flats achieve a high density of housing while still having large flats with great sized rooms. In terms of form and appearance a 5 story brick building blends in well with the urban scene.

My estate is also easy to navigate through. This in part is due to a very good redevelopment scheme that was implemented a few years back and means the estate is a very pleasant place to be at ground level.

Many of your criticisms I feel about 1960/70s estates, but these 1930s blocks don't seem anywhere near as bad, or have as much 'dead space' amongst the blocks.

I wouldn't say these blocks are the pinnacle of housing but they are a good model that still provides a great service. Having lived in some new builds recently which were far worse, I think it's a shame they are being knocked down when there is a housing shortage and many 60s estates that are unpleasant and wasteful of land remain standing.

[Smarty]

Originally Posted by SELondoner

He's probably thinking of the double deck buses that used to use the tunnel, but trams used to hang a right and head down Lower Road towards Deptford.

He must have got it mixed up. I thought it was strange although apparantly trams did go through the Blackwall Tunnel.

image hosted on flickr

Originally Posted by cybertect

These ones, I think (excuse the bus)

Yep - those are the ones. Thanks for the pics.

[SELondoner]

Originally Posted by Smarty

He must have got it mixed up. I thought it was strange although apparantly trams did go through the Blackwall Tunnel.

image hosted on flickr

That's the old tram terminus on the S side but they didn't run through. Double decker buses did, specially modified for the tunnel with special roof profiles to fit within the tunnel.

[cybertect]

Modified AEC Regent STL types



http://dewi.ca/trains/london/buses.html

not only did they have domed roofs, but also inward sloping upper deck pillars and steel reinforced tyres to protect them from the kerbs in the narrow tunnel roadway. This bus was removed from LT stock on 22 February 1954.

Prior to that they were modified NS types [London Transport Museum photo]

In 1951, the surface of the tunnel was lowered allowing standard RT types to take over duties, but the surface was raised up again in 1967/8 to create a wider carriageway and the 108 became operated single deck buses (SM type Swifts, initially) and has remained so ever since.

[ladyb]

Originally Posted by .Adam

Does anybody know what they are developing here.. its located infront of the Laban centre, just behind Deptford Bridge, I only caught a quick rubbish photo from the DLR.

Flats. In fact quite a lot of development is happening in that locality on both sides of the line and when finished, will obscure the view from my flat of Canary Wharf.

[Officer Dibble]

Is it Deal's Gateway?

[.Adam]

Originally Posted by Officer Dibble

Is it Deal's Gateway?

I don't think so, that SE8 development is the one next to Deptford Bridge DLR, I believe there is a plot there to build a hotel? this one is to the right of the Laban centre, I noticed a big apartment development has nearly completed just behind the Laban also.

[ladyb]

Originally Posted by .Adam

I don't think so, that SE8 development is the one next to Deptford Bridge DLR, I believe there is a plot there to build a hotel? this one is to the right of the Laban centre, I noticed a big apartment development has nearly completed just behind the Laban also.

It's on the site of the old Seager Distillery building in Brookmill Road.

[Officer Dibble]

Is it The Distillery?

[huggyb]

Originally Posted by .Adam

Does anybody know what they are developing here.. its located infront of the Laban centre, just behind Deptford Bridge, I only caught a quick rubbish photo from the DLR.

If I'm not mistaken this is the large Galliard development on Greenwich High Road, on your left from the DLR as you head from Greenwich to Deptford Bridge. Mixed use development including a hotel, almost next door to Mumford Mills.

AS others have said, there is a lot going on in a small area around there... This one, The Distillery, Creekside, New Capital Quay, the new school over near Deptford station, and a few sites cleared/being cleared in what looks like readiness for development.

There is also the regeneration of the Heathside and Lethbridge Estate on Blackheath Hill/Lewisham Road. Here, the Blackheath Hill side has been completely demolished ready for Phase 1 development starting this summer.

[ladyb]

Originally Posted by huggyb

If I'm not mistaken this is the large Galliard development on Greenwich High Road, on your left from the DLR as you head from Greenwich to Deptford Bridge. Mixed use development including a hotel, almost next door to Mumford Mills.

Sorry to disagree with you, but the original post is: "Does anybody know what they are developing here.. its located infront of the Laban centre, just behind Deptford Bridge, ...". If so, then it cannot be on Greenwich High Road. The old Seager Distillery site is more likely.

[.Adam]

I think I may have caused some confusion with my description! I know for certain that its not the Distillery site, its a little further down from there, I will go and take some more pictures during the week!