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Old May 13th, 2015, 01:08 PM   #5201
alexandru.mircea
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The difference between RER and Suburban Rail is that RER trains cross Inner Paris at underground level, servicing it like a metro system (you can even use the same tickets as for the metro). Suburban Rail (called Transilien) lines start from ground level railway stations and go radially towards the suburbs and back. Not sure what you mean by "express trains on metro".
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Old May 13th, 2015, 01:14 PM   #5202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyshakernowlive View Post
Could someone explain what the difference between RER, Commuter Trains (on Suburban Rail), Express Trains on Metro, and simple Suburban Rail, are?
The Paris Metro has no express services. All trains stop at all stations.

Are you referencing how subways are done in NYC for instance? Some lines there have express trains running on inner tracks which skip stations. Local trains are on the outer tracks.
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Old May 13th, 2015, 02:34 PM   #5203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HARTride 2012 View Post
The Paris Metro has no express services. All trains stop at all stations.

Are you referencing how subways are done in NYC for instance? Some lines there have express trains running on inner tracks which skip stations. Local trains are on the outer tracks.






Quote:
Originally Posted by alexandru.mircea View Post
The difference between RER and Suburban Rail is that RER trains cross Inner Paris at underground level, servicing it like a metro system (you can even use the same tickets as for the metro). Suburban Rail (called Transilien) lines start from ground level railway stations and go radially towards the suburbs and back. Not sure what you mean by "express trains on metro".
Express trains are essentially ubahn services that skip certain stations and may travel for longer distances too. In Tokyo, such trains not only skip stations but travel into suburban rail networks and head deep outside the city. It reminds me of RER using ubahn network without segregated tunnels. (So a Metro train would call at every third station, and near the end would merge onto the transilien/RER network and head even further outwards.)

RER strikes me as a commuter rail service that only calls at mid sized towns, while translinen services more smaller towns and is less frequent.

I applaud Paris for having a superior metro network in Europe. Such diversity is unmatched. I can only say that Paris should look into going 24hrs.
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Old May 13th, 2015, 03:41 PM   #5204
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Transilien isn't necessarily rarer, the line I use (J) has one train every ten minutes. The main difference is that Transilien belongs entirely to SNCF, the railway company. Hence differences like using the railway stations instead of the subterranean network (on Paris' territory) and the rolling stock.
Previously I was using a Transilien line (R) that was running on the same rail as a RER D branch (for a good part), so that one didn't stop where the RER did, which made the trip indeed faster. But I think this isn't very common.
RER B has the most obvious example of an express service, with its trains that alternatively stop or don't stop for commuter stations on the way to and from the CDG airport. Otherwise, the metro was designed from the start as a very dense network (with close stops and short times between trains) so the RER and the Transilien were consequently thought with their own lines so that they can offer the different service they do. It would have been impossible for them all to use the same lines.
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Old May 13th, 2015, 04:53 PM   #5205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexandru.mircea View Post
Transilien isn't necessarily rarer, the line I use (J) has one train every ten minutes. The main difference is that Transilien belongs entirely to SNCF, the railway company. Hence differences like using the railway stations instead of the subterranean network (on Paris' territory) and the rolling stock.
He's been in the London thread and insisting on using German terminology to describe London's networks, eg "London's ubahn" and then assuming that because he's applying German definitions on London's network, it fits those, or at least should do.

So he sees RER as a functionally different thing to Transilien - the former being akin to a Stadt-bahn: high frequency, high capacity and fast suburban services, and the latter being akin to regional rail: lower frequency, different seating set up, not serving the suburbs but small towns and villages.

Is there much difference in rolling stock between RER and Transilien - surely they would be of a similar length, seating layout, top-speed, etc? Or am I imposing London's lack of stark differences in form and function onto Paris?
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Old May 13th, 2015, 05:37 PM   #5206
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Maybe by the Express metro, he meant the "Grand Paris Express project".
Grand Paris Express is a project of the new metro lines in suburbs and the extension of two existing metro lines.
The construction management is carried out by the Société du Grand Paris, instead than by solely the STIF (Paris Region transportation planning authority).

Note that Transilien is the name of the whole suburban SNCF network in Paris area, the SNCF RER are part of the Transilien Network even if we use this name only to designate non RER lines.
The biggest difference between the Transilien and SNCF RER lines is that the RER cross the center of Paris instead of stopping in big terminals.

Some Transilien services have the same rolling stock than RER lines, there are Z2N running on the Transilien P, R and U as well as the RER C and D.
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Old May 13th, 2015, 06:08 PM   #5207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
He's been in the London thread and insisting on using German terminology to describe London's networks, eg "London's ubahn" and then assuming that because he's applying German definitions on London's network, it fits those, or at least should do.

So he sees RER as a functionally different thing to Transilien - the former being akin to a Stadt-bahn: high frequency, high capacity and fast suburban services, and the latter being akin to regional rail: lower frequency, different seating set up, not serving the suburbs but small towns and villages.

Is there much difference in rolling stock between RER and Transilien - surely they would be of a similar length, seating layout, top-speed, etc? Or am I imposing London's lack of stark differences in form and function onto Paris?
I equate RER to a high frequency service that runs to bed towns, and stops less than a ubahn.
I equate sbahn to a mid frequency service that covers the mid density suburbs of a city thoroughly, occasionally running into the bed towns and villages, and is slower than RER. Sbahn can help connect villages but I presume it will be low frequency.

RER should have a higher frequency at every station, but both systems will have similar frequencies at major interchanges.

A person is highly likely to use the RER to get out into the suburbs quickly before changing onto sbahn.

I use these terms due to lack of clear terminology, the word metro can be used for multiple services, but ubahn usually means 'tube' or 'underground metro'. Similarly I use sbahn to mean local services radiating out from mainline stations, which arent classed as intercity.

Think of it as...
U-Bahn: Urban Rail
S-Bahn: Sub Urban Rail
RER: Regional Express Rail

Metro Express is just a type if service found on ubahns. In the same way one can find commuter services on the above three networks.
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Old May 13th, 2015, 08:21 PM   #5208
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The RER as well as the other suburban trains cover of lot of different realities, you can't generalize.
The RER A is very different of the RER D.
The Transilien L is very different of the Transilien R and even inside one line, depending the service it is not the same.
A Transilien J service between Saint-Lazare and Ermont-Eaubonne is completly different of a Transilen J service between Saint-Lazare and Gisors.
The first is a completly urban local service and serves only dense surburbs (some denser than many inner city districts in Europe), the second service goes far into a bed town located at 62 km of Central Paris.
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Old May 13th, 2015, 08:54 PM   #5209
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Exactly, I'm going to ask nicely, Skyshakernowlive, for you to not post troll-like posts across the forum like this. It is not helpful and adds nothing to these threads.

Thank you to the forum members who have replied informatively and calmly.
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Old May 13th, 2015, 10:11 PM   #5210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minato ku View Post
The RER as well as the other suburban trains cover of lot of different realities, you can't generalize.
The RER A is very different of the RER D.
The Transilien L is very different of the Transilien R and even inside one line, depending the service it is not the same.
A Transilien J service between Saint-Lazare and Ermont-Eaubonne is completly different of a Transilen J service between Saint-Lazare and Gisors.
The first is a completly urban local service and serves only dense surburbs (some denser than many inner city districts in Europe), the second service goes far into a bed town located at 62 km of Central Paris.
So the difference is only down to company and tunnels? Such a segregation would not work in London or Tokyo.

On Transilen J, I am one to suggest that commuters make most of that journey on a faster RER train before switching to local transilien trains, and that transilien focuses on providing stopping services with the odd express train, I doubt transilien can match the frequency of a segregated RER.

Anyway, you may scorn at me but discussion like this helps make progressive metro systems. Since nearly all cities have extensive suburban railways with a need to have regular service at every single station, it DOES make since to build RER lines stopping at mid-towns only and continuing deep into bed towns in the countryside.

Ubahn systems are only effective in heavily dense area, in more suburban areas sbahn offered more flexibility too.
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Old May 13th, 2015, 11:52 PM   #5211
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Many Transilien have there own segregated tracks.
At Saint-Denis, there are more Transilien H than RER D
At Ermont Eaubonne, there are Transilien H than RER C, the transilien H is more convenient and more used than the RER C in this area because it reaches faster Central Paris at Gare du Nord rather than the slow VMI branch of the RER C.

This video is pretty old but it show weell the intensity of traffic at Saint Lazare.
Pont Cardinet is the station right after Saint-Lazare.
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Old May 14th, 2015, 02:12 PM   #5212
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The 9



Another fine job by ErebosSan!
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Old May 18th, 2015, 11:57 PM   #5213
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Porte de Charenton

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Old May 19th, 2015, 09:51 AM   #5214
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Just received an update from the newsletter of the Société du Grand Paris about Line 18.

This was the former map: http://www.societedugrandparis.fr/wp...h_sept2014.pdf

Now they show this: http://www.societedugrandparis.fr/wp...-2030-1205.jpg

The option with a station at St-Quentin Université seems abandonned.
The dotted line represents the overground section.

A concertation about Line 18 is currently held. Dates and places can be found here: http://www.societedugrandparis.fr/tr...orcee-ligne-18
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Old May 23rd, 2015, 09:23 AM   #5215
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Line 1 service east of Nation is currently suspended through Monday
http://www.leparisien.fr/paris-75/pa...15-4787985.php
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Old May 23rd, 2015, 01:53 PM   #5216
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What happend to the curve after the extension to Marie de Montrouge? Can it still be used for turning trains?
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Old May 23rd, 2015, 02:05 PM   #5217
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The curve is now a dead end, the northbound platform has been expanded over this track.
http://carto.metro.free.fr/cartes/me....327125&zoom=2

The curve is now solely used to park trains.

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Line 1 service east of Nation is currently suspended through Monday
http://www.leparisien.fr/paris-75/pa...15-4787985.php
I went in Vincennes yesterday and I noticed a lot of articulated buses.
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Old May 23rd, 2015, 02:46 PM   #5218
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I can imagine there were a lot of articulated buses. Such a busy line to be shut down for any reason.
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Old May 23rd, 2015, 05:21 PM   #5219
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It is not as bad as you may imagine, it is the eastern edge and Vincennes is also served by the RER A.
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Old May 24th, 2015, 11:34 PM   #5220
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Quai de la Rapée station



Train approaches Gare d'Austerlitz



MF 01 just left station Barbès Rochechouart to dive to the underground section with destination Porte Dauphine

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