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Old May 16th, 2010, 04:52 PM   #441
Linie29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rheintram View Post
This is a picture from the new high speed line under construction in the Tullnerfeld area and there is also a concrete base under the tracks
Feste Fahrbahn (German Website)
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Old May 16th, 2010, 08:08 PM   #442
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Is this actually a "feste fahrbahn" (I don't know the English word for it, unfortunately)? There is still rubble/stones on top of it. That's whats peculiar about the whole thing.
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Old May 17th, 2010, 01:29 PM   #443
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis View Post
I have a few questions , why do you guys build a paved roadbed and then build a railway ontop? Does it make the trains vibrations less? Does it lengthen the railways lifespan?
Asphalt roadbed is used instead of gravel + geotextile combination, because it performs better, has longer lifespan and effectively has no maintenance cost over the lifespan (even the wear on rails is lower due to more stable base).
It costs somewhat more, to the point that some of new embedded rail in slab track solutions are competitive even on initial installation price.
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Old October 27th, 2010, 01:54 AM   #444
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Some new pics of the construction of the Koralmbahn (Graz - Klagenfurt) between Deutschlandsberg and Werndorf (in Styria):


Koralm-tunnel eastern entrance:










The area of the future station "Weststeiermark":




near Gussendorf:


station Wettmannstätten:












line between Wettmannstätten and Hengsberg:




















Hengsberg-tunnel:














between Hengsberg-tunnel and Werndorf














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Old October 27th, 2010, 02:13 AM   #445
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what will be the top speed for this line? 300?
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Old October 27th, 2010, 11:11 AM   #446
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Around 200, and with mixed traffic (long distance and local passenger, plus freights).
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Old October 27th, 2010, 09:18 PM   #447
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Originally Posted by endrity View Post
what will be the top speed for this line? 300?
Design speed is 250 km/h, but trains will likely run not faster than 230 km/h.
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Old October 27th, 2010, 09:21 PM   #448
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That's too bad, the quality of the construction seems state of the art, and it could easily support higher speeds. In this high-speed train market, speed truly is the name of the game and I am a bit surprised to see Austria decide not to invest in true top speed lines. For a small country like Austria, one or two main lines should be enough, especially if they are connected to the neighbouring countries.
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Old October 27th, 2010, 09:57 PM   #449
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It isn't easy to run freights together with 350 km/h trains...
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Old October 27th, 2010, 10:06 PM   #450
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I know. It's borderline impossible actually, that's why since the construction of the line is new they should have probably built it only for high speed trains.
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Old October 27th, 2010, 11:02 PM   #451
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Quote:
Originally Posted by endrity View Post
That's too bad, the quality of the construction seems state of the art, and it could easily support higher speeds. In this high-speed train market, speed truly is the name of the game and I am a bit surprised to see Austria decide not to invest in true top speed lines. For a small country like Austria, one or two main lines should be enough, especially if they are connected to the neighbouring countries.

Dedicated high-speed lines IMO only start to make sense, if they are used by say ~4 high-speed-trains per hour per direction.

That means that you need a population, which might fill such trains. Just look on the map, there is a huge difference between countries.


Source: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ity_Europe.png

The population density from England via BeNeLux and Western Germany + Paris to Switzerland and Norther Italy is quite different from the region around Vienna.

Austria is like Siberia compared to this area. The population density in Austria is only half of Germany (100 vs 230 inhabitants/km²).
Plus: In Austria 50% of the people live in villages smaller than 7500 inhabitants. Vienna is the only town with more than 1 mio inhabitants.

The neighbouring countries have a similar population structure. Only a few big towns (but still small compared to many of the agglomerations in the above mentioned areas), but a lot of small and medium size towns.

In such an area, IMO speed is NOT the name of the game.
The name of the game in this case is a railway system, that reaches a huge percentage of the disperse population with comptetitive travel times.
This is possible, if long-distance and local trains are connected ideally. And this requires not an as-fast-as-possible-philosophy, but an as-fast-as-necessary-philosophy. With travel times between major hubs of a few minutes less than 30, 60, 90 etc minutes (based on an hourly interval) perfect connections in all directions are possible at these hubs.
That's the principle of an Integrated Periodic Timetable. The Swiss already show how it works, but also in other countries there are efforts to introduce such a system.

The alignment of the Koralmbahn between Graz and Klagenfurt was designed to enable a travel time of about ~55 minutes with 2 intermediate stops.
This is easily possible with 230 km/h.
Another alignment would have required much wider radii and thus even more tunnels.
Rmin for 250 km/h and 0,85 m/s² cant deficiency is 3800m, for 300 km/h it's 5800m (superelavtion limited by max negative cant deficiency of -0,23 m/s² for freight trains at 100 km/h.
But it would be only of use for additional trains not fitting into the hub-system. For those trains, which serve the hubs and enable connections there, a top-speed of 300 km/h makes no sense.
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Old October 27th, 2010, 11:04 PM   #452
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Originally Posted by endrity View Post
I know. It's borderline impossible actually, that's why since the construction of the line is new they should have probably built it only for high speed trains.
For only one train per hour per direction? It would have been financially unsustainable.
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Old October 28th, 2010, 02:27 AM   #453
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Well I understand the reasons why the Austrians have made the decisions, and especially the financial constraints.

However, Vienna is not far away, with high-speed times, from either Munich or Northern Italy and especially Milan. With economic activity becoming more and more integrated, I am sure that in the near future demand for those routes will increase, if it's not high already. The point of high speed lines is to bring closer larger agglomerations, that don't necessarily have a lot of population in between, as Barcelona-Madrid and Paris-Lyon demonstrate.

Having said that, this improvement looks great. It's still nice to dream of a future line from Munich to Vienna traveling at 300 km/h.
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Old October 28th, 2010, 03:18 AM   #454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachalnik View Post
Dedicated high-speed lines IMO only start to make sense, if they are used by say ~4 high-speed-trains per hour per direction.
Where can I have more informations about that ?

On Tanger-Kenitra HST it will have 2 train per/hour/direction between Tangier and Casablanca and 1 train per Fes. And that only, in rush hour.
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Old October 29th, 2010, 02:12 PM   #455
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Quote:
Originally Posted by endrity View Post
Well I understand the reasons why the Austrians have made the decisions, and especially the financial constraints.

However, Vienna is not far away, with high-speed times, from either Munich or Northern Italy and especially Milan. With economic activity becoming more and more integrated, I am sure that in the near future demand for those routes will increase, if it's not high already. The point of high speed lines is to bring closer larger agglomerations, that don't necessarily have a lot of population in between, as Barcelona-Madrid and Paris-Lyon demonstrate.

Having said that, this improvement looks great. It's still nice to dream of a future line from Munich to Vienna traveling at 300 km/h.
It would probably make wa more sense on a Munich-Vienna route although the planned or discussed upgrates of that line are similar to the Koralm with 230 to 250 km/h, a mixture of upgrated and new tracks and two to three intermediate stops.

I suspect that passenger numbers between Milan and Vienna are too small to justify a HSL, especially if you keep in mind that it has to cut through the Alps - the plane would probably still be the faster option. The line itself (Vienna - Koralm - Pontebbana - Trieste) is actually very important for freight traffic as it connects the Austrian capital to the countries most important sea port. And basically the whole Central European region. So it makes sense to plan the route for freight traffic needs and passenger services at the same time. That is true not only for the Koralm but also for the connection to Italy (where the most important part has already been upgrated).
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Old November 9th, 2010, 11:47 PM   #456
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I guess we reached the point of no return. The Federal Railways awarded the contract for the longest section of the Koralm Tunnel to STRABAG.

Quote:
Koralm Tunnel: STRABAG wins Austria’s largest construction contract

Vienna, 28 October 2010 Today, Thursday, ÖBB Infrastruktur AG and Austrian construction group STRABAG signed the contract for the construction of the Koralm Tunnel. A consortium under STRABAG’s technical and commercial leadership will begin work in early 2011 in order to complete construction on the main section by late 2018. With a value of € 570 million, it is the largest construction contract ever awarded in Austria.

“We are currently finishing work on the Gotthard Base Tunnel in Switzerland. It is wonderful that we now have the opportunity to again deploy our decades of expertise in tunnelling in our home country of Austria,” says Hans Peter Haselsteiner, CEO of STRABAG SE.

The Koralm Tunnel is the main section of the new Koralm railway link to be built between Graz and Klagenfurt and represents an important section of the Baltic-Adriatic axis of TEN Corridor No. 23 between Gdańsk, Warsaw, Vienna and Bologna. Upon completion, the Koralm Tunnel will be 32.5 km long, making it the longest railway tunnel in Austria and one of the longest in the world.

STRABAG, working together with Jäger Bau GmbH, will construct two parallel, single-track bores with a length of 20 km each using two tunnel boring machines with a diameter of 9.9 m. The 8.5 million tonnes of excavated material will be used to produce 1.0 million m³ of concrete for the inner lining of the tunnel. The work represents a particular technical challenge as the only access possibility to the underground construction site is through a 60 m access shaft near Deutschlandsberg in southern Styria.
http://www.strabag.com/databases/int...25736A0046758E, 28. October 2010

There is also a lot going on at the construction site of Vienna's new central station.

http://www.hauptbahnhof-wien.at/de/S...a_P1030262.jpg

Once finished it's gonna look like this:

http://www.hauptbahnhof-wien.at/de/S...tz-Nord-VS.jpg
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Old November 17th, 2010, 12:19 AM   #457
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Future plans for the Austrian rail network: http://www.bmvit.gv.at/presse/archiv...ich/grafik.pdf (map).

- Upgrating the connection Lauterach-St. Margareten (CH)
- security measures Arlbergtunnel
- attractiveness measures on the Außerfernbahn (Garmisch-Partenkirchen (D) - Reutte - Pfronten (D))
- Brenner base tunnel
- 4 tracks on the Inntalbahn (Kundl - Radfeld)
- 3 tracks from Salzburg to Freilassing (D) (S-Bahn Salzburg)
- renovation Salzburg main station
- 4 tracks on the Westbahn between Wels and Linz
- Linz - Summerau (Czech border)
- planning for Bosrucktunnel
- Koralmbahn
- second track Werndorf - Spielfeld - Straß (Slowenian border to Maribor)
- renovation Graz main station
- 4 tracks Westbahn Ybbs - Amstetten
- new freight bypass St. Pölten (Westbahn)
- renovation Semmeringbahn (Gloggnitz - Mürzzuschlag)
- Semmering base tunnel (same stretch)
- new line St. Pölten - Vienna
- Lainzer tunnel in Vienna (connection between the Westbahn, the new main station, the Ostbahn and the Südbahn)
- electrification Gänserndorf - Slovakian border
- new line airport Schwechat - Götzendorf (Danube crossing east of Vienna)
- new Vienna main station (u/c)
- Upgrating of the Pottendorfer Linie (Meidling - Wampersdorf, south of Vienna)
- new loop between Eisenstadt and Müllendorf (bypass for Vienna, connecting the Südbahn and the Ostbahn/Wien-Raaber Bahn to Budapest)
- stations Kitzbühel, Bruck/Mur, Schladming, Scharzach-St. Veit and Zeltweg.

pretty impressive, imo. There are three huge tunnel projects (Brenner, Koralm and Semmering), another one is the Lainzer Tunnel in Vienna (and afaik the Wienerwaldtunnel on the new line to St. Pölten). The Westbahn sees massive investments, improving the capacity between Vienna and the German boarder to face current and future needs especially regarding the transported freight. The Südbahn will be improved significantly, too. Finally, several connections to the Northern, Eastern and Southern neighbours are going to be improved, too.
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Last edited by thun; November 17th, 2010 at 12:27 AM.
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Old November 18th, 2010, 01:20 AM   #458
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thun View Post
Future plans for the Austrian rail network: [...]The Westbahn sees massive investments, improving the capacity between Vienna and the German boarder to face current and future needs especially regarding the transported freight. The Südbahn will be improved significantly, too. Finally, several connections to the Northern, Eastern and Southern neighbours are going to be improved, too.
As a matter of fact it would be about time to massively invest in the western part of the Westbahn, too. The track between Wels and Salzburg might be good enough for freight, but it definitely is not for passenger transportation.

Any news about Munich - Salzburg? I mean the german government is promising a decent track for decades now and nothing really happened since then. Kind of a bummer cuz I see a lot of potential between Munich and Vienna. 3 hours from city center to city center would definitely be a strong competition to flying.
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Old November 18th, 2010, 08:22 PM   #459
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It has already been mentioned before, but I might just repeat it: Austria's structure (Alpine, many intermediate cities all over the place) does not justify railway lines for speeds over 250 km/h.

That speed is more than enough for our topography. Once the section from Salzburg to Munich would actually be upgraded by Germany, the proposed 1-2-3 system could be implemented (1 hour Vienna to Linz, 2 hours to Salzburg, 3 to Munich). Another bottleneck in the Austrian railsystem is also in Germany and that's the so called 'German corner' between Salzburg and Kufstein. If this section is upgraded too, we would end up with a high-speed line from Innsbruck straight to Vienna.

Already today ICE and railjet trains need just about 4:40h for that journey. Once Unterintalbahn and the highspeed section between St. Pölten and Vienna are finished, this could be cut to just a bit over 4 hours. With improvements in the German corner and between Salzburg and Wels we would end up, way under 4 hours. That's a pretty good time.
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Old November 18th, 2010, 10:02 PM   #460
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Well we are not talking about a 300 km/h track from Bischofshofen to Graz, but an overdue upgrade for the track Salzburg - Linz. The current 80-120 km/h sections between Wels and Salzburg are a disgrace and nothing else. Especially due to the fact that the Westbahn is considered ÖBB's cash cow. The landscape argument is also pretty weak on the Westbahn since there are no Alps anywhere near.
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