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Old November 19th, 2010, 12:36 AM   #461
thun
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Yet it still is far from being flat. And you have to keep in mind that thats probably the least important part of the Westbahn.

In terms of freight traffic the Innviertelbahn (Wels - Passau) is more important than the Westbahn from Wels to Salzburg as far as I know. And that part was upgrated during the last years in terms of both capacity and speed (and is quite impressive now, imo). Also, that's the route the ICEs to Vienna take. And thats as far as I can see the reason why the investments on the Westbahn (apart from the rebuilding of Salzburg Hbf.) are focussed on the part east of Wels - ÖBB wants to create a (freight) rail corridor to Eastern Europe along the Danube that can deal with the new demand. The only real project to speed up passenger trains (the new line from Vienna to St. Pölten) makes real sense only in combination with the new Vienna main station.

However, it would make sense to upgrate the railway from Munich to Salzburg. The proposal is to build a second track on the Munich - Freilassing route via Mühldorf, allow higher speeds and electrify it. This would finally allow to segregate the traffic to the Brenner from the traffic to the Westbahn and create a real backup route for both Alps crossings (Brenner and Tauern). Maybe, even a connection via Munich airport could be considered. However, these afaik are only proposals, so we probably have to wait another 20 to 25 years to see results (if the should happen at all).
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Old November 19th, 2010, 01:50 AM   #462
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The main argument to upgrade a railway track would be to reduce travel time and thereby make it more attractive to people still using the car. Freight only plays a minor roll and isn't really an argument.

I also wouldn't say it's the least important part of the westbahn. Salzburg is the hub for all trains to western Austria and also plays a major roll (even more important than Linz if you ask me) for pretty much all the north-bounding trains to Germany. I also can't think of another region in Austria, which is more interconnected with the other side of the boarder plus you also have the ICE in Salzburg.

Munich - Salzburg via MUC? How would this make any sense? I mean MUC is not just some kilometers north of Munich. Quite a detour and the transrapid is more likely to be built.
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Old November 19th, 2010, 02:27 PM   #463
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Quote:
Freight only plays a minor roll and isn't really an argument.
So wrong! Freight is the driving force behind all (most) railway upgrades!

It's mostly because of cargo that Westbahn capacity has been doubled (four tracks).
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Old November 19th, 2010, 03:07 PM   #464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rheintram View Post
So wrong! Freight is the driving force behind all (most) railway upgrades!

It's mostly because of cargo that Westbahn capacity has been doubled (four tracks).
Yeah, because of it, but not for it. They upgrade to keep the people transportation attractive otherwise they would have to face huge losses in this sector. Who would still take the train if it's stuck behind cargo trains all the time?
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Old November 19th, 2010, 08:15 PM   #465
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In fact freight traffic is the more important argument to upgrate the tracks between Munich and Salzburg (the chemical industry in Burghausen creates so much cargo that the existing capacities aren't sufficient for years already). Speeding up passenger trains is more a side effect.

Regarding the line via Mühldorf and the connection to MUC (most important argument: direct connections from everything Northeast, East and Southeast of Munich to the airport by regional services):
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahnstr...3M%C3%BChldorf
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erdinger_Ringschluss
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Old November 23rd, 2010, 12:35 AM   #466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thun View Post
Future plans for the Austrian rail network:
- 4 tracks on the Inntalbahn (Kundl - Radfeld)
under constrcution, to be opened in dec 2012

Quote:
- 3 tracks from Salzburg to Freilassing (D) (S-Bahn Salzburg)
Salzburg Hbf - Taxham finished, Taxham - Freilassing planned (maybe ready in 2015 or so).

Quote:
- renovation Salzburg main station
under construction

Quote:
- second track Werndorf - Spielfeld - Straß (Slowenian border to Maribor)
Only the section Lebring - Leibnitz will be double-tracked in the near future (partly already finished, partly under constrcution), the timeline for the realization of the other sections is still not fixed.
Might also depend on Slovenia, currently they don't have any plans to upgrade the line Spielfeld - Maribor...

Quote:
- renovation Graz main station
under construction

Quote:
- 4 tracks Westbahn Ybbs - Amstetten
under construction, to be fully operational in ~2015

Quote:
- new freight bypass St. Pölten (Westbahn)
under construction

Quote:
- new line St. Pölten - Vienna
under construction, to be opened in dec 2012

Quote:
- Lainzer tunnel in Vienna (connection between the Westbahn, the new main station, the Ostbahn and the Südbahn)
under construction, to be opened in dec 2012 (but will be used for passenger trains only once Wien Hbf is finished)

Quote:
- new Vienna main station (u/c)

A few tracks will be operational from dec 2012 (for local trains from the east, after the current Wien Südbahnhof (Ostseite) will be shut down), will be fully operational in 2015 (then most long distance trains will serve the new station).


Quote:
- Upgrating of the Pottendorfer Linie (Meidling - Wampersdorf, south of Vienna)
partly double tracking under construction

Quote:
- new loop between Eisenstadt and Müllendorf (bypass for Vienna, connecting the Südbahn and the Ostbahn/Wien-Raaber Bahn to Budapest)

No, this will be no (freight) bypass, the only purpose is to speed up local (passenger) train services Vienna - Eisenstadt.

If it had been planned as a (freight) bypass, then also a south-to-east curve in Parndorf Ort would be necessary. Also passing tracks on the Wulkaprodersdorf - Parndorf Ort line are not suitable for (long) freight trains.


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Last edited by nachalnik; November 23rd, 2010 at 10:28 AM.
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Old November 23rd, 2010, 12:54 AM   #467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNick View Post
As a matter of fact it would be about time to massively invest in the western part of the Westbahn, too.
Well, the Semmering base tunnel and the Koralm-line are huge investments, and it is just not affordable to realize these projects and a further upgrade of vthe Westbahn between Attnang-Puchheim and Salzburg.

For the next decade the focus is clear:

Finishing the capacity upgrade on the Westbahn (4tracks from Vienna to Wels, there the line splits and capacity isn't such a big issue between Wels and Salzburg)

Enabling a more attractive Südbahn from Vienna via Graz to Klagenfurt with building the Semmering base tunnel (SBT) and the Koralm line (KAB = Koralmbahn).

Travel times on the Westbahn are quite attractive already now and will be substiantially reduced in dec 2012.
Compared to that, the Südbahn travel times are unchanged since 30-40 years and are not really competitive. So it is really necessary to improve the situation. One must not forget, that there is about the same amount of inhabitants in the corridor between Vienna and Villach via Wr Neustadt - Bruck - Graz - Klagenfurt and in the corridor Vienna - Linz - Salzburg.
And also the first deserve a decent railway connection.
Even with SBT and KAB the travel times from Vienna to Graz and Klagenfurt wont be better than today to Linz and Salzburg, allthough the distance (as the bird flies) is similar. However, they will be much better than today (currently 3h50 to Klagenfurt vs 2h40 to Salzburg and 2h30 to Graz vs 1h30 to Linz).

So, with limited funds I can fully understand, that further upgrades between Attnang-Puchheim and Salzburg will be only started AFTER the construction of SBT and KAB.
Then the 1st section will be from Neumarkt-Köstendorf to Salzburg (about 20 km, new fast double track line supplementing the existing line). From today's point of view the 2nd section (Attnang-Puchheim - Neumarkt-Köstendorf) might be realized only in the very very far future.

With the new Neumarkt-Köstendorf - Salzburg line and an upgrade of the Salzburg - Mühldorf - Munich line (planned according to the Bundesverkehrswegeplan), the travel time Vienna - Munich would then be at around 3h30 (Vienna - Linz 1h15, Vienna - Salzburg 2h15)....

Last edited by nachalnik; November 23rd, 2010 at 10:29 AM.
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Old November 23rd, 2010, 01:11 AM   #468
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Thanks for your added information.
I don't really think that the Brenner base tunnel will be opened in 2012, given the fact that the start of construction is planned not before 2015. It could be opened between 2025 and 2027.

Apparently I really misinterpreted the Eisenstadt-Müllendorf upgrate (I thought it was clear from the map I linked, it turned out to be too large scaled however). Of course, your explanation makes much more sense.

Regarding the Westbahn "vs." Südbahn, I would agree to your explanation of the project schedules. Upgrating the Wels-Salzburg part of the Westbahn is indeed far less important than upgrating the Eastern part of the Westbahn and the Südbahn. It really makes sense only when the German line (Freilassing-Munich via Mühldorf) should be realized some day, too.
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Old November 23rd, 2010, 10:25 AM   #469
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thun View Post
Thanks for your added information.
I don't really think that the Brenner base tunnel will be opened in 2012,

Of course.

My comments only refer to the last quoted project above, sorry for the misunderstanding caused by that...now I edited my previous posting to make things more clear.


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Old November 23rd, 2010, 03:57 PM   #470
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachalnik View Post
Might also depend on Slovenia, currently they don't have any plans to upgrade the line Spielfeld - Maribor...
We do, there's a spatial plan for the Maribor - Šentilj railway being prepared. A second track and upgrade to 120 or 160 km/h is planned.
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Old November 23rd, 2010, 10:01 PM   #471
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Quote:
- Upgrating the connection Lauterach-St. Margareten (CH)
This is actually under construction. Although short it's an important section of the Zurich to Munich line. Currently a new bridge over the Rhine, between Lustenau (A) and St. Margrethen (CH), is under construction. The line will also be partially upgraded to a second line.

Quote:
- security measures Arlbergtunnel
Most of the work is already finished.

As for the SBT I doubt it will be built in the next few years.
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Old November 23rd, 2010, 11:34 PM   #472
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Originally Posted by kreden View Post
We do, there's a spatial plan for the Maribor - Šentilj railway being prepared. A second track and upgrade to 120 or 160 km/h is planned.
Well, Slovenia has indeed a lot of plans, but till now all money went to the highway construction.

The only major rail project, which had been realized during the last 20 years was the new line Murska Sobota - Hodos and currently the upgrade of Pragersko - Murska Sobota. The planned electrification of this line is delayed untill 2020 or so.

Meanwhile hundreds of km of new highways were built during the last 10-15 years, whereas important railway projects are being delayed from year to year (like the new line Koper - Divaca - is it now finally under construction?).
New alignments for higher speeds on the main line Ljubljana - Maribor/Zagreb would be much more important than an upgrade of Maribor - Sentilj, but even there no progress is visible.

I know that there are a lot of plans in Slovenia (http://www.mzp.gov.si/fileadmin/mzp....07-23_0711.ppt ), but are the necessary investments already fixed?


Sorry for off-topic, maybe we should continue this discussion in the Slovenia-thread....
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Old November 24th, 2010, 12:36 AM   #473
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Just to reply, yes, the motorways have been a priority so far, but that is changing now, parliament passed a law giving a few percent of road taxes to railway construction and that alone will give 100 million euro or so per year towards building and upgrading new tracks so I think we can expect things to move quicker in the future. But anyway my point is that a spatial plan is being prepared meaning that it's not just an idea anymore and that it will be built for certain, the only question is when.

Sorry for the offtopic.
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Old November 24th, 2010, 12:42 AM   #474
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Well, that's usually the question, not only in Slovenia.

I think the connections to the Czech Republic, Slovakia and Hungary are way more important (at least from the Austrian point of view) anyway.
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Old November 24th, 2010, 01:32 AM   #475
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kreden View Post
Just to reply, yes, the motorways have been a priority so far, but that is changing now, parliament passed a law giving a few percent of road taxes to railway construction and that alone will give 100 million euro or so per year towards building and upgrading new tracks so I think we can expect things to move quicker in the future.
OK, let's hope so.
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Old December 24th, 2010, 07:08 PM   #476
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Some pics of the renovated Westbahnhof in Vienna (as well as of the "Dacia"-overnight train to Bucharest):






















































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Old December 25th, 2010, 10:30 PM   #477
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Nachalnik
Nice pictures.

Have you some pictures of interior sleepers trains ?
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Old December 26th, 2010, 06:11 PM   #478
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railjet

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/kecko/4387966054/

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/mpk/425...n/photostream/

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/___riky___/3527725293/

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/austrianpsycho/5076202769/

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/leled445/4591540442/

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/jspetrak/3187236071/

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Old December 27th, 2010, 10:20 AM   #479
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The BDZ WLABm looks so out of place on Westbahnhof... I'm a little ashamed.
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Old January 3rd, 2011, 05:27 PM   #480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NiGhtPiSH View Post
The BDZ WLABm looks so out of place on Westbahnhof... I'm a little ashamed.

The what?

Too sad you can't catch the beauty of the renovated Westbahnhof on pictures. Way more impressive in real.
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