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Old April 26th, 2012, 05:43 PM   #561
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sekelsenmat View Post
But not why something along the road route was not considered. The road seams quite streight, and has a small tunnel. Even if the speed would be slower, it might end up with the same time as a large detour would be avoided.
Too steep of a grade for freight trains to negotiate.
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Old April 26th, 2012, 09:05 PM   #562
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Couldn't they avoid most of the mountains with a route about 20km to the east of the A2 till Fürstenfeld and then going west from there?
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Old April 26th, 2012, 09:54 PM   #563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNick View Post
Actually this is the so called "Semmering Basistunnel neu", so there have been plans for a different tunnel 30 years before. They actually already started drilling sounding boreholes in 1994, but had to face major water inlets to cause the whole tunnel being flooded. After that the very powerful Prime Minister of the federal state of Lower Austria, Erwin Pröll, was blocking the whole project for legal and political reasons.

It took 10 more years to come up with new plans, which also pleased "Pröllusconi" and another 6 years to finally start digging again.

Another factor, why it took so long was the ÖBB itself. They completely focused on their power horse, the Westbahn, and did not care that much for other railways. But now there's the political will to make the Südbahn just as good as the Westbahn starting with the Brenner Base Tunnel and the Koralmbahn connecting Graz and Klagenfurt.
Why did it took so long to start digging?
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Old April 26th, 2012, 10:00 PM   #564
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Quote:
Originally Posted by earthJoker View Post
Couldn't they avoid most of the mountains with a route about 20km to the east of the A2 till Fürstenfeld and then going west from there?

That would require building a totally new line of 150 km length, and the topography there is not as easy as it seems: The terrain there is is not totally flat, but has a lot of small hills - and on each hill a few houses, so building a railway is neither cheap nor is it likely that such plans would find acceptance at local people.

Compared to that building one 27-km-tunnel is easier and cheaper.

Also the the existing route serves some smaller towns between 10.000 and 30.000 inhabitants (Kapfenberg, Bruck/Mur, also Leoben and the Aichfeld-area around Knittelfeld/Judenburg will benefit from the new tunnel), whereas the "towns" in Eastern Styria are much smaller...


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Old April 26th, 2012, 10:12 PM   #565
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Originally Posted by earthJoker View Post
Couldn't they avoid most of the mountains with a route about 20km to the east of the A2 till Fürstenfeld and then going west from there?
This sure could have been option, but there are three arguments against that idea:

1) All the important industry in the Mur-Mürz Valley would have no access to the high-capacity rail line.

2) Way more people live along the current track than in the south.

3) You'd have to built everything new from Wr. Neustadt all the way to Graz.
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Old April 26th, 2012, 10:13 PM   #566
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Why did it took so long to start digging?
Eventually it can be nailed down to political reasons. Prime Minister of Lower Austria blocked the project for at least 10 years.
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Old April 26th, 2012, 10:47 PM   #567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNick View Post
This sure could have been option, but there are three arguments against that idea:

1) All the important industry in the Mur-Mürz Valley would have no access to the high-capacity rail line.

2) Way more people live along the current track than in the south.

3) You'd have to built everything new from Wr. Neustadt all the way to Graz.
Well I understand those arguments for local traffic and freight traffic. It's kind of a compromise solution similar to the Swiss projects.
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Old April 27th, 2012, 03:27 AM   #568
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Slovenian Pendolino at Spielfeld-Straß:


http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?...20120122194749
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Old April 27th, 2012, 03:29 AM   #569
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Horrible grade-level crossing on a through track. Not even a pedestrian gate!!!!
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Old April 27th, 2012, 10:06 AM   #570
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Horrible grade-level crossing on a through track. Not even a pedestrian gate!!!!
This is in a freaking one horse town with a train crossing every now and then.
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Old April 27th, 2012, 10:07 AM   #571
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Horrible grade-level crossing on a through track. Not even a pedestrian gate!!!!
We can't see from the picture, but may be there is are stairs too, and
this is just used by railway personnel.

But that said, I agree with you about the pedestrian gates. This seems
to be a quite common device in the Netherlands, but does not seem to
exist anywhere else. Although in my opinion, it's a very good alternative
to stairs for stations with limited traffic. It's somewhat strange to see
those apparently very good ideas that for some reason never managed
to spread away from their country of origin. Just NIH syndrom ? I wonder.
The russian grade crossing might also be a good example of this...
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Old April 27th, 2012, 10:12 AM   #572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNick View Post
This is in a freaking one horse town with a train crossing every now and then.
Although you can see three of them together on the same picture...

This is may be the station of a tiny village, but located on a very busy
railway line ! If there are frequent trains going through the station
without stopping, this is just an accident waiting to happen. Specially
with those new trains that make no more noise than a hunting cat...
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Old April 27th, 2012, 10:21 AM   #573
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This railway line is far from busy. You can say there's a train every 20 minutes. Why should people be capable of crossing streets, but when it comes to train tracks we have to come up with gates?
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Old April 27th, 2012, 10:38 AM   #574
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNick View Post
This railway line is far from busy. You can say there's a train every 20 minutes. Why should people be capable of crossing streets, but when it comes to train tracks we have to come up with gates?
Because if the pedestrian does something foolish, a motorist still has some
chance to avoid him by braking or altering his course, while the train is
stuck on its rails and takes a mile to stop...
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Old April 27th, 2012, 10:46 AM   #575
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Because if the pedestrian does something foolish, a motorist still has some
chance to avoid him by braking or altering his course, while the train is
stuck on its rails and takes a mile to stop...
That is a weak argument, especially inside the station area like that. In the picture above you see 2 trains standing and one leaving. If you're too stupid to actually realize, that there might be a train running on these tracks and you better look left and right before crossing, it's for the sake of the human gene pool.
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Old April 27th, 2012, 11:40 AM   #576
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This is a border station with a current break, it's also on a single track line. In other words there aren't any non-stop trough trains, and if there are they can use the tracks on the outside of the platforms that don't have a railway crossing. All trains that pass this particular crossing do this at slow speed.
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Old April 27th, 2012, 12:13 PM   #577
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In these cases in Italy it's the conductor of the first train arrived who check that the passage is free, and he allows the second train to enter the station only when all passengers have boarded or left his train.

On double track lines the rules are somewhat stricter, as fa I know a train cannot stop or pass through track 1 if a passenger train is standing on track 2 and to quit the station from track 2 one must cross track 1.
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Old April 27th, 2012, 12:22 PM   #578
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
On double track lines the rules are somewhat stricter, as fa I know a train cannot stop or pass through track 1 if a passenger train is standing on track 2 and to quit the station from track 2 one must cross track 1.
This is the same rule in Austria.

Unfortuntaley we still have some such stations, even on lines with a lot of traffic (between Wels and Salzburg).
It is quite annoying, as this also has to be considered when designing the timetable. So it means that you need to plan a time-interval of ~2 minutes between a stopping train in direction A and a passing train in direction B in all these stations.
Of course, a stopping train in direction B and a passing train in direction A are possible at the same time, so this can cause asymmetric timetables...



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Old April 28th, 2012, 07:11 PM   #579
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Horrible grade-level crossing on a through track. Not even a pedestrian gate!!!!
"Horrible grade-level crossings" are also very common elsewhere, for instance in Italy, on many secondary and rural lines.....,or in the States...
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Old April 28th, 2012, 07:58 PM   #580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Horrible grade-level crossing on a through track. Not even a pedestrian gate!!!!
LOL! here, have a coronary:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SR7UbJYYIgI

an important junction station in eastern hungary with several IC trains, tons of freight traffic, thousands of people getting on and off, lot ot through traffic at high speed, 2 meter wide platforms and NOT an under/overpass in sight...or a single injury in years

can you deal with that?
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