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Old November 13th, 2012, 05:44 PM   #741
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
One hour spend on a moving vehicle is subjectively perceived as being less long than one hour spend waiting.
This rule only applies to regular journeys. For one-time travellers, however, it can be the exact opposite.
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Old November 13th, 2012, 07:59 PM   #742
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Scenario A
- slow train 44 min + 11 min waiting time + 155 min medium speed train = total 210 min

Scenario B
- slow train 44 min + 64 min waiting time + 102 min high-speed train = total 210 min
A well projected system would have a Scenario C:
- slow train 44 min + 11 min waiting time + 102 min high-speed train = total 157 min

Often it doesn't cost much more than scenario B, which is the one usually chosen by Renfe and Trenitalia...
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Old November 13th, 2012, 10:47 PM   #743
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Missing a connection or waiting too long are different animals.

I'm talking of a situation like this

Scenario A
- slow train 44 min + 11 min waiting time + 155 min medium speed train = total 210 min

Scenario B
- slow train 44 min + 64 min waiting time + 102 min high-speed train = total 210 min

If schedules are known (e.g., no delay or unreliable service) and the waiting point is a good station with Wi-Fi, restaurants, a business lounge if you need so, then Scenario B is preferable to A, since a station offers a wider arrange of services and amenities than a moving train.

Now if the transfer station is an open platform exposed to the elements without a place to sit and with beggars and panhandlers in sight, then I concede Scenario A is preferable.
The point is that Scenario A is not only far more energy efficient but also cheaper because certain costs of train service increase quasi exponentially with the speed of the service.

If superior timetables can achieve what high speed rail can achieve, it is clearly the better choice. Of course, there is no reason why one could not combine superior timetable systems with some high speed offers, where they make sense.
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Old November 14th, 2012, 06:18 AM   #744
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist
Missing a connection or waiting too long are different animals.

I'm talking of a situation like this

Scenario A
- slow train 44 min + 11 min waiting time + 155 min medium speed train = total 210 min

Scenario B
- slow train 44 min + 64 min waiting time + 102 min high-speed train = total 210 min

If schedules are known (e.g., no delay or unreliable service) and the waiting point is a good station with Wi-Fi, restaurants, a business lounge if you need so, then Scenario B is preferable to A, since a station offers a wider arrange of services and amenities than a moving train.

Now if the transfer station is an open platform exposed to the elements without a place to sit and with beggars and panhandlers in sight, then I concede Scenario A is preferable.
Scenario B costs the railway (and you) more without offering faster end to end trip times. How is the same value at a higher cost preferable?
BTW Swiss IC trains have restaurants and wifi on board...
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Old November 14th, 2012, 06:22 AM   #745
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flierfy
This rule only applies to regular journeys. For one-time travellers, however, it can be the exact opposite.
But most of the people on most trains will be regulars.
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Old November 14th, 2012, 09:38 AM   #746
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gentlemen, what about the line between wien and marchegg (and to bratislava) ? this is one nice straigth track, which deserves to be upgraded for the higher speed. what do you think about that ?
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Old November 14th, 2012, 12:36 PM   #747
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Starting 2014 the "Marchegger Ast" will receive a second track and the whole thing will be electrified. IIRC Vmax should be 160 km/h, which is definitely fast enough.

Construction will be divided in 2 steps:

2014-17 Viennese part gets a second track and an overhead line
2017-23 Vienna city limit - border

Not fast enough for my liking, but money is kind of scarce.
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Old November 14th, 2012, 03:12 PM   #748
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However, construction won't start before 2019, as the construction is not yet included in the "Rahmenplan" (current 2013-2018 version: http://www.bmvit.gv.at/verkehr/gesam..._oebb_2013.pdf)
@ STYRIA: Railway projects have been deferred but not just yet cancelled. What about 2nd tracks, reconstruction of branch lines and construction of new lines in order to get the network improved?
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Old November 14th, 2012, 06:32 PM   #749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNick View Post
Starting 2014 the "Marchegger Ast" will receive a second track and the whole thing will be electrified. IIRC Vmax should be 160 km/h, which is definitely fast enough.

Construction will be divided in 2 steps:

2014-17 Viennese part gets a second track and an overhead line
2017-23 Vienna city limit - border

Not fast enough for my liking, but money is kind of scarce.
It's quite a shame if this modernisation in 21st century will take more time than building this railway from scratch back in 19th century. Especially since this is the simplest railway in Austria.

What about electrification of line Gänserndorf - Marchegg? It should have started this year.
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Old November 14th, 2012, 08:32 PM   #750
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNick View Post
Starting 2014 the "Marchegger Ast" will receive a second track and the whole thing will be electrified. IIRC Vmax should be 160 km/h, which is definitely fast enough.

Construction will be divided in 2 steps:

2014-17 Viennese part gets a second track and an overhead line
2017-23 Vienna city limit - border

Not fast enough for my liking,but money is kind of scarce.
Not if we look at all the grand railway projects currently in progress or already finished.
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Old November 15th, 2012, 12:33 AM   #751
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You've give yourself the reason already why money is scarce.

More than 100 km of tunnel is sort of expensive.
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Old November 15th, 2012, 01:32 AM   #752
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Money is scarce... because the priorities are skewed. Vienna and Bratislava are some pretty big cities which are not much more than ~60 km apart from each other and they still have no direct electrified double track rail connection. ... 20 years after the fall of the iron curtain.

And now the timetable is to finish an ugrade after the 30th anniversary of the fall. That is almost ridiculous. Because there is hardly a less demanding possible track in Austria. Its basically already there, it would just need an upgrade.

I am not even getting started about the trains that run on that track, there is basically no high priority or direct connection between Vienna and Bratislava. 70 min+ for that distance is awful average speed, even given that quite a bit goes across built up Vienna.

PS: But at least, there is a timetable now ...
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Last edited by Slartibartfas; November 15th, 2012 at 01:40 AM.
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Old November 15th, 2012, 02:42 AM   #753
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
But most of the people on most trains will be regulars.
Which makes it a rule for most but not for all travellers.
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Old November 25th, 2012, 11:57 PM   #754
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Some recent photos from Vienna main station (2012-11-23):



















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Old November 26th, 2012, 04:15 AM   #755
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beautiful station
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Old November 26th, 2012, 10:02 AM   #756
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i might go from christmas market in wien (as i do every year) so i can't wait to see new station ! looks wonderful !
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Old November 26th, 2012, 09:40 PM   #757
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i might go from christmas market in wien (as i do every year) so i can't wait to see new station ! looks wonderful !
And I am thinking of going to the christmas market in Bratislava so I could use that station
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Old November 27th, 2012, 12:40 AM   #758
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Compared to the previous shit-hole, this new station looks like heaven
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Old November 28th, 2012, 03:57 PM   #759
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i understand your sarcasm but you better not to see bratislava main station))))) take the train to petrzalka instead and then 93 bus to the center))))

Quote:
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And I am thinking of going to the christmas market in Bratislava so I could use that station
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Old November 28th, 2012, 09:59 PM   #760
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Are you talking with me? I was not sarcastic. But you are right, I also prefer stanica Petrzalka. I have already walked the way to the center from there as well. They created a pretty neat path for that end as well. Not to forget that the train is faster as well when you go to Petrzalka and the station is nicer.
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