daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old February 19th, 2014, 12:59 AM   #941
flierfy
Registered User
 
flierfy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,886
Likes (Received): 296

The numbers in this depiction don't add up
__________________
Rippachtal.de
flierfy no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old February 19th, 2014, 01:19 AM   #942
Sunfuns
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Basel
Posts: 2,426
Likes (Received): 361

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNick View Post
RJ to Italy will never happen, unless FS completely changes their regulations regarding fire suppression systems, or the RJ is equipped with one. Both is very unlikely to happen, imo.
Does it mean that new type of trains will need to be ordered for traffic through Brenner base tunnel? I'm optimistically assuming here that it actually gets built on time...
Sunfuns no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 19th, 2014, 01:25 AM   #943
Verso
Islander
 
Verso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ljubljana
Posts: 22,088
Likes (Received): 4752

Will there be RJ from Graz to Ljubljana or Zagreb (probably not both)? What do you think?

Last edited by Verso; February 19th, 2014 at 04:09 AM.
Verso no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 19th, 2014, 04:16 AM   #944
KingNick
Make Wu'bar Great Again
 
KingNick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 6,039
Likes (Received): 8718

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
Does it mean that new type of trains will need to be ordered for traffic through Brenner base tunnel? I'm optimistically assuming here that it actually gets built on time...
Should be no problem to use the current IC rolling stock, that is already running on the Munich - Brenner - Italy route. From what I know those regulations only apply to HSR for some reason (apparently fire there is more of a threat than in an ordinary coach that is certified for 200 km/h).

http://www.wienerzeitung.at/nachrich...-Railjets.html

It's about bloody time, rolling stock is certified EU wide from a single authority. There'll never be real competition with practices like this.
__________________
Europa per gli europei

Slartibartfas, Qwert liked this post
KingNick no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 19th, 2014, 12:00 PM   #945
vitacit
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: bratislava, slovak republic
Posts: 231
Likes (Received): 96

...

i can't tell you exact speed on slovak side but there is quite heavy tracks reconstruction around devinska nova ves, just across morava river from marchegg. i'm not sure but it should be around 160 km/h (part of corridor to czech republic). to have nonstop wien-bratislava on the double track at 160 via marchegg would be wonderfull.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
Oh really? Isn't it a waste of money to build selective double-track first just to construct a complete double track within another 10 years? Especially as the corridor already exists.

But whatever, electrification and upgrading to 160 km/h are the most important thing. Higher speeds wouldn't make a lot of sense I guess because of the limited length. If this will be really completed within the next 7 years, it is still a shame but at least with an end in sight. I mean those diesel trains are also ruining the new Hauptbahnhof with the tons of exhaust gasses that will turn the roof structure in a fairly short time.

What is the possible time saving on the track btw?
Currently a REX needs 17 min from Wien Hbf to Hausfeldstraße and 20 min from Marchegg to Bratislava hv. st. -> 37 min
I read somewhere that the straight stretch in the middle would be doable in 13 min -> 50 min from Vienna Hbf to Bratislava hv. st.

What is the speed on the Slovak part and are their improvements possible as well? What would be the possible time for a non-stop connection of Vienna Hbf. and Bratislava hl. st.?


PS: You can make it from Vienna to St. Pölten in 25 min ...
vitacit no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 19th, 2014, 12:24 PM   #946
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,539
Likes (Received): 21253

Austria is also caught on this ridiculous practice of devising a timetable before designing the infrastructure

Which results in train lines that are not built to the maximum possible speed
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old February 19th, 2014, 01:43 PM   #947
rower2000
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Zurich [CH], formerly Bregenz [A]
Posts: 341
Likes (Received): 91

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
Oh really? Isn't it a waste of money to build selective double-track first just to construct a complete double track within another 10 years? Especially as the corridor already exists.
As I read it, the existing track has to be more or less rebuilt anyway for the higher planned speeds and axis weights. Thus, in module 1, the whole new track will be built adjacent to the existing line, followed by demolition of the whole existing track and reconstruction and electrification in selected areas. In module 2, on the remaining parts of the line the "old" track will be rebuilt. See here: http://www.oebb.at/infrastruktur/__r...odeId=37260150
and here: http://www.bmvit.gv.at/verkehr/eisen...ng/uve_zsf.pdf page 7 to 9.
rower2000 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 19th, 2014, 04:19 PM   #948
Surel
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,702
Likes (Received): 2156

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
Thank you for that link. I had no idea about the proposed timetable concept 2025. I think the map from that brochure deserves to be posted here:


http://konzern.oebb.at/de/Presse/Pub...ect_2014_1.pdf
Wien - Břeclav ... one hour when Brno - Břeclav takes half an hour atm.

Last edited by Surel; February 19th, 2014 at 04:33 PM.
Surel no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 20th, 2014, 12:25 AM   #949
augmentedreality
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 58
Likes (Received): 73

Capacity increase on the ÖBB network through expansion and upgrading

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Austria is also caught on this ridiculous practice of devising a timetable before designing the infrastructure.
Which results in train lines that are not built to the maximum possible speed.
Mr Andreas Matthä, Spokesman of the Managing Board of ÖBB-Infrastruktur AG, reports in a Communiqué de presse, ÖBB is currently ploughing more funds than ever into the development of the country’s railway network.

Austrian Railways’ second main focus is on maintaining and improving the existing network. “Seventy per cent of ÖBB network dates from the period of the monarchy, and these lines now urgently need to be brought up to scratch,” he explains.

Mr Matthä notes that most of the new construction projects being undertaken by ÖBB also impact European rail corridors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=K-4LrPO5aUU

Last edited by augmentedreality; February 23rd, 2014 at 01:54 AM.
augmentedreality no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 20th, 2014, 12:37 AM   #950
Sunfuns
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Basel
Posts: 2,426
Likes (Received): 361

I don't think ÖBB deserves too much criticism these days. There is a lot being invested plus the network is not really bad in the first place.
__________________

SAS 16, Dreidecker liked this post
Sunfuns no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 20th, 2014, 10:03 AM   #951
rower2000
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Zurich [CH], formerly Bregenz [A]
Posts: 341
Likes (Received): 91

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Austria is also caught on this ridiculous practice of devising a timetable before designing the infrastructure

Which results in train lines that are not built to the maximum possible speed
What is the maximum possible speed of a railway line? You can build almost any relation to 200 kph, to 300 kph, or to 400 kph. The only drawback is: the cost increases exponentially. A 300 kph line is very significantly more expensive than a 230 or 250 kph line. Thus, builing a line for speeds "as high as necessary" is much more economical than for speeds "as high as possible".
__________________

Dreidecker liked this post
rower2000 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 20th, 2014, 10:37 AM   #952
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 768

Sub likes a lot suggesting how to spend other's peoples money (but never find a way to raise that money), and thinks that all transport engineers are idiots, without understanding that planning timetable actually increase travel speed...but it is useless to reply to him, he has his truths, and will never change them.
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 20th, 2014, 03:20 PM   #953
augmentedreality
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 58
Likes (Received): 73

NFC information panels for customer information to provide simple access about departing trains with real time information

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
I don't think ÖBB deserves too much criticism these days. There is a lot being invested plus the network is not really bad in the first place.
Published on the 17th February 2014 by ÖBB

ÖBB equips 850 stations and stops with INFOStation panels with NFC technology. Total nationwide 1,209 INFOStation boards will be mounted with those stations and stops, which have no departure monitors or train destination display.



With the help of the panels in A3 format, passengers can easily query the departure times and real-time information of next moves to the respective station by mobile phone. It's important to provide current route and traffic information, especially in the event of a fault such as interruption of operations, replacements by bus service, etc..



Querying the next departing trains work either
> by touching the table with a NFC enabled smartphone,
> by scanning the QR code with your Smartphone, calling the number 0820 988 588 + indicating the station number
or
> by calling the links http://m.oebb.at/ab + input of the station number in the Internet browser of your Smartphone.
__________________

thun liked this post

Last edited by augmentedreality; February 20th, 2014 at 04:28 PM.
augmentedreality no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 21st, 2014, 07:13 PM   #954
JavCo17
BANNED
 
JavCo17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 106
Likes (Received): 49

Really Good....
JavCo17 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 21st, 2014, 09:53 PM   #955
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 768

More problems for the SBT?

http://www.vwgh.gv.at/aktuelles/pres...semmering.html
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 21st, 2014, 10:19 PM   #956
KingNick
Make Wu'bar Great Again
 
KingNick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 6,039
Likes (Received): 8718

Not really. A new permit is going to be issued by the ministry and that's about it. The old permit was annuled purely on procedural grounds, nothing that could not be fixed.
__________________
Europa per gli europei
KingNick no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2014, 12:42 AM   #957
Slartibartfas
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vedunia
Posts: 11,609
Likes (Received): 5972

It sounded like a delay of maybe 6 months to me. Is that about right?
There is some pain in the a** nimby movement that is seeing the devil in this base tunnel and tries everything it can to slow it down if it can't prevent it.

PS: For reasons beyond me der Standard employs a journalist who is fighting their cause.
__________________
"Brexit means Brexit and we are going to make a Titanic success of it.”
Boris Johnson, Foreign Secretary, UK
Slartibartfas no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2014, 12:45 PM   #958
alphorn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 31
Likes (Received): 11

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Austria is also caught on this ridiculous practice of devising a timetable before designing the infrastructure

Which results in train lines that are not built to the maximum possible speed
I know you're trolling, just like when you recommend AnsaldoBreda trains, but for those who don't know the reasons for Austria's method, here's some background.

"Timetable first" is an very successful strategy. Switzerland has increased ridershop by 3.4% from 2009-2011, Austria by 2%, whereas Italy with a "Maximum speed" strategy has decreased ridershop by 11%(!). Source: worldbank.org

Maximum speed increase in one place means no speed increase in another place. You get more minutes in travel time reduction per Euro if you do moderate increases in multiple places.

If you put those places right, you get a good timetable with MUCH more travel time reductions than the minutes you accelerated because you can save an hour by faster train changes.

Maximum speed also means you have high energy costs (meaning high ticket prices) and have to buy expensive trains (high ticket prices) which most of the time will run well below their maximum speed. High ticket prices mean fewer passengers, therefore fewer train, therefore more time between trains so if someone can't choose the time he needs to travel he loses more time waiting at the station.

Building it for maximum speed would mean circumventing the smaller cities. That would mean just 1.5 trains per hour would use it instead of 4 trains per hour: The OIC trains would still run on the legacy line, losing at least as many passenger minutes as the railjet gains.

I did a computation: From St. Pölten to Linz you could save only 8 minutes by going for 300 km/h versus 200 km/h. And it would make ALL changeover times along the line worse: Prague-Linz-Wien +8, Bischofshofen-Salzburg-Wien +8, Bischofshofen-Salburg-Innsbruck +52, Fortezza-Innsbruck-Feldkirch +52. Since few people live directly at a main station, changeover times DO matter.

Check the travel time reductions on page 9 of the PDF, they are measured in HOURS, most of them thanks to better changeover times. The extra few minutes from maximum speed are in the best case irrelevant and in the worst case counter-productive.
__________________
alphorn no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2014, 07:12 PM   #959
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 768

Quote:
Switzerland has increased ridershop by 3.4% from 2009-2011
It should be around +50% in the last 10 years, but I can't find the source now.

By the way, an integrated timetable is perfectly compatible with high speed lines, and can increase their traffic. Trenitalia doesn't plan its timetable, with results like Zürich-Torino trips sometime faster by regional trains than by HSTs.
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2014, 07:39 PM   #960
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,539
Likes (Received): 21253

Trenitalia doesn't care much about connections from incoming international trains.

In any case, it is perfectly feasible to speed up other relations, especially in a country like Austria where the biggest single agglomeration is located in one corner. OBB network should be made more "Wien-centric" with high-speed lines branching off, and one long one to Brengez and a Swiss connection. Railways in Voralberg are incredibly slow. Even Innsbrück is too far away from Wien.
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
austria, rail infrastructure, railways, öbb

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium