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Old October 30th, 2008, 07:01 PM   #81
DJZG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
Pripyat? Are you crazy?
lol well a little bit
we shouldn't go much offtopic but i can't stand not to reply on this
it's really not that big deal going into Exclusion Zone Pripyat...
accident happened more than 20 years ago and most of the radiation in air is long gone...
99% of remaining radiation is in ground and in object such as buildings and vehicles...
true, radiation levels are much higher than normal, but to have any effect on human we would have to live there for few months...
touristic routes to Pripyat are going for few years now and everything lasts for few hours... you go in and out the same day...
so a few hours of little higher radiation can be compared like 7 days sunbathing on Adriatic coast
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Old October 30th, 2008, 07:24 PM   #82
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I'd love to go to Pripyat, I'm really anxious to see the Nucleair power plant. But I'm also just crazy
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Old October 30th, 2008, 11:32 PM   #83
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truly excellent
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Old October 31st, 2008, 12:28 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
Pripyat? Are you crazy?
I think it´s not that dangerous. One journalist from czech rep. was with his photographer there, and they reported no problem. You must get some permition from goverment to enter the area (but according to them it´s just about corrupting some officer) and you get the geiger-computer. Then you can walk freely through Pripyat (excluding forests, where the radiation is on the higher level). After your trip, you return the geiger to security and they analyse, whether you received some dangerous level of radiation. Both the jurnalists had the radiation under the lovest level of danger.

Sry for OT
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Old October 31st, 2008, 12:37 PM   #85
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i was reading info on www.pripyat.com and there are regular tourist routes from Kiev... when i read it, it cost 50€ few months ago... entering in Exclusion zone is in groups of max 10-15 people with guides that are actually born in Pripyat.... route is usual... main road, square, fun-park that was never opened... and going to nuclear plant, viewing a concrete sarcophagus of damaged reactor from 200m distance and trip back to Kiev...
duration is just few hours... like i said... just as sunbathing on coast, probably even less dangerous than that...
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Old November 1st, 2008, 12:31 AM   #86
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this trip looks absolutely amazing, i'm going to be spending a year in moscow starting next september, and i really hope i can do a long rail trip like this, probably to beijing though instead of NK. also pripyat seems like an interesting (in a creepy way) place to visit, i'll definatly visit when i'm in kiev
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Old November 1st, 2008, 12:36 AM   #87
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One would have thought you could go to London. Why would you want to stop at Vienna of all places having travelled all the way from Pyongyang?
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Old November 1st, 2008, 01:20 AM   #88
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i'm sure lots of railroads in Russia have something interesting to see... so it's definitely a 'must' see once in a lifetime
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Old November 1st, 2008, 03:00 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dean251182jones View Post
One would have thought you could go to London. Why would you want to stop at Vienna of all places having travelled all the way from Pyongyang?
If you're talking about the author of the travelogue, he is Austrian and he went from Vienna to Pyongyang.
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Old November 1st, 2008, 05:01 PM   #90
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Yeah, North Koreans can't even leave their country.
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Old November 2nd, 2008, 01:59 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
Yeah, North Koreans can't even leave their country.
uhh... not really funny but sad...
and i've read on KFA site a question, are N Koreans allowed to go out to the world, and official statement is that they can... for exploration, scientific things...
it's just a big propaganda theater thing...
very crazy...
i bet most of those people don't even want to go out cause of all that 'brainwashing'...

i'm still watching for that railroad to S Korea... it is operative but still absolutely zero passenger transport... shame...
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Old November 2nd, 2008, 10:19 AM   #92
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Has anyone ever seen the documentary about "Inside North Korea" on National Geographic? That explains it all, sadly enough.....
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Old November 2nd, 2008, 01:15 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJZG View Post
uhh... not really funny but sad...
I know, but I don't know how someone can think he went from Pyongyang to Vienna (the title is totally clear too). Anyway, yes, some of them can go out (like sportsmen), but that's less than 1%, and even they can't choose, whether they'd like to go to Vienna or London, only Kim can do that.
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Old November 7th, 2008, 09:24 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
I know, but I don't know how someone can think he went from Pyongyang to Vienna (the title is totally clear too). Anyway, yes, some of them can go out (like sportsmen), but that's less than 1%, and even they can't choose, whether they'd like to go to Vienna or London, only Kim can do that.
Hmm, would Kim Jong Il get a visa for the Schengen-countries or the UK? ;-)

Irrespective of that, he would never go to London. I'm sure that his special train doesn't comply with the technical standards required for trains using the Eurotunnel...

There are apart from diplomats also other North Koreans who are under certain circumstances allowed to leave the country. For examples there are North Koreans working or studying in Russia. Or artists or sportsmen, who are going to a performance or a game.
A passport and a special North KOrean visa for leaving the country are necessary, a fellow passenger, who returned from 1-year working in Russia, showed us his passport with 3 North Korean and 3 Russian visas.

This year the North Korean "Great Flying Circus" had it's 1st ever show outside North Korea. They made a tour in Europe and their shows took place at Amsterdam, Frankfurt and Dusseldorf.
See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwcXTP4SGEI



Greetings


Helmut
(BTW, I'm the author of the travelogue Vienna - Pyongyang)
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Old November 8th, 2008, 02:04 AM   #95
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Privet Nachalnik
Did you, by any chance, pass through the city of Chongjin? What were your impressions? Or the train just bypassed the place?
Thanks in advance and cheers!
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Old November 8th, 2008, 08:56 AM   #96
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Privet Nachalnik
Did you, by any chance, pass through the city of Chongjin?
Yes, but it was in the middle of the night and I was sleeping...
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Old November 8th, 2008, 09:25 PM   #97
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Privet

The strange little EMUs that you saw are rebuilt from former Pyongyang metro trains. The one you photographed looks like it was a Chinese-made DK4, while the German tour company FarRail has a photos of two more types (scroll down) - a different DK4 conversion and a GI train from the East Berlin U-Bahn (these were used on the Pyongyang metro for several years).
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Old November 9th, 2008, 08:39 PM   #98
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Part 9 of the travelogue

This and the next parts of the travelogue are quite off-topic here, because they don't contain much transport-related stuff. However, I also want to show some pictures of our touristic programm in and around Pyongyang, I hope you like them too.
I also kindly ask the moderators of this forum for understanding, that I post this non-rail-related article, but otherwise the travelogue wouldn't be complete. However, there will still be some more rail-related parts of this travelogue (train trip Pyongyang - Beijing and so on).


----

2008-09-21

Programm for that day:

- breakfast
- Kumsusan Memorial Palace (Kim Il Sung mausoleum)
- Revolutionary Martyrs Cemetery
- Book&stamp shop
- lunch at the Yanggakdo hotel
- drive to Myohyang mountains
- Check in Hyangsan hotel
- little hiking trip in the Manpok valley
- Diner at Hyangsan hotel

Morning view from our room. The railway bridge over the Tadeong-river can be seen in the fog.


The breakfast at the hotel was quite good, there was a buffet and even imported "Darbo"-jam from Stans in Tirol (Austria) was available…


After the long train trip across North Korea, during which we got an impression of real North Korean life, the luxury here at the hotel was a big contrast...

At 8:30 we met our guides and drove to the Kumsusan Memorial Palace. It was the official residence of Kim Il Sung untill he died in 1994. Then Kim Jong Il, his son, decided to transfer it into a mausoleum for Kim Il Sung.

Taking photos are not allowed inside the mausoleum. There were hordes of North Korean waiting to see the Great Leader and also some foreign tourists. Foreign tourists and their guides were privleged and didn't had to wait.

The building is really huge and we walked through long corridors. Everything is very clean and bright, escalators are working and music like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DW1jmWuvh2o is coming from the loudspeakers. No doubt that this is the most sacred place in North Korea.

Before seeing Kim Il Sungs embalmed body we passed some other rooms. In one of them all decorations and certificates received by Kim Il Sung are exhibited. The items are sorted according to origin: domestic, from Europe, from Africa etc.
This is to show the North Korean people that the Great Leader was honored everywhere in the world. Most official decorations he received from other communist states and their leaders (Erich Honecker, Fidel Castro, Nicolae Ceausescu...). However, there were also some decorations or certificate from various organizations, universities, parties in Western countries. Also a certificate from an university in the United States... (don't remember which university). We were also given earphones and heared that the whole world was shocked after Kim Il Sung died in 1994 and that there was mourning all over the world...hmmm
Finally we went to the main-room of the mausoleum. The guides told us how to behave, how to walk, where to put or not to put the arms and so on and that we would have to make three bows for the Great Leader.
That's what we then did when we were in the big room, in which there is the clear sarcophagus with the body of Kim Il Sung inside. One bow in front of the sarcophagus, then one at the left side and then the last on the right side.
After that we passed to two other rooms, where Kim Il Sungs car and his special waggon were exhibited.

Outside again, we could take some photos of the impressive building.





North Koreans posing for a group photo:




So, now only the Ho Chi Minh mausoleum in Hanoi is missing in my "personal collection" of mausoleums with embalmed corpses of state founding leaders (there are four such mausoleums in the world)!

Unfortunately it was not possible to use the tram line to get to the mausoleum and back. This meter-gauge tramway line is not connected to the ordinary tramway network and it's only purpose is to bring visitors to the Kumsusam Memorial Palace. Old trams from Zurich are used on this line. The guides said, that only bigger groups of foreign tourists can use the tramway (in a seperate train, I assume).

However, we asked our guides whether we could at least take some photos at the terminal stop near the mausoleum. After a short tolk with an officer the guide said, that we were allowed to take some photos...





Then we drove to the Revolutionary Martyrs Cemetery on mount Taesong. The guides told us the stories of some of the North Korean heroes buried there.




We also were asked to buy some flowers for 2 EUR and lay them down at the bust of Anti-Japanese war hero Kim Jong Suk (= Kim Il Sung's wife):


The day after our visit was the 59th anniversary of her death, which explains the quantity of flowers and wreaths.

http://www.kcna.co.jp/item/2008/200809/news09/23.htm writes:


High Tribute to Kim Jong Suk Paid
Pyongyang, September 22 (KCNA) -- Wreaths were laid before the bust of anti-Japanese war hero Kim Jong Suk at the Revolutionary Martyrs Cemetery on Mt. Taesong on Monday on the occasion of the 59th anniversary of her demise.
Seen before the bust was a wreath from Kim Jong Il, general secretary of the Workers' Party of Korea, chairman of the DPRK National Defence Commission and supreme commander of the Korean People's Army.
Attending the wreath-laying ceremony were senior party, army and state officials, the chairperson of a friendly party, leading officials of party, armed forces and power bodies, working people's organizations, ministries and national institutions, servicepersons and working people and schoolchildren in the city of Pyongyang.
Placed before the bust amidst playing of the wreath-laying music were wreaths in the name of the WPK Central Committee, the Presidium of the DPRK Supreme People's Assembly and the DPRK Cabinet.
Also laid were wreaths in the name of the Ministry of the People's Armed Forces, working people's organizations, ministries and national institutions, KPA units, educational, cultural and art, public health and press organs, the joint national organizations of the Korean Children's Union, and party and power bodies, factories and farms in Pyongyang.
The participants paid silent tribute to Kim Jong Suk, looking back upon her noble revolutionary life and immortal exploits.
Meanwhile, floral baskets were placed before her statues in Kim Jong Suk County and Hoeryong City and at Kim Jong Suk Naval Academy and Kim Jong Suk General Military School on the same occasion.

People Remember Kim Jong Suk's Brilliant Life
Pyongyang, September 22 (KCNA) -- An endless stream of servicepersons, people from all walks of life and school youth and children is visiting the bust of Kim Jong Suk, an anti-Japanese war hero and woman commander of Mt. Paektu, in the Revolutionary Martyrs Cemetery on Mt. Taesong and the revolutionary sites and revolutionary battle sites associated with her undying feats across the country in September on the occasion of the 59th anniversary of her death.
The number of visitors reached more than 500,000 as of Sept. 21.
This is a manifestation of the iron faith and will of the army and people to hold in high esteem forever Kim Jong Suk, supreme incarnation of devotedly defending the leader who gave a steady continuity to the Songun revolution and dedicated her all to the country and the revolution.
Senior party, army and state officials and over 200,000 servicepersons, people from all walks of life and school youth and children visited the Revolutionary Martyrs Cemetery on Mt. Taesong to pay high tribute to Kim Jong Suk. The cemetery was also visited by a great number of overseas compatriots and foreigners.
Many people of different social standings have visited the revolutionary sites in North Hamgyong Province, including the time-honored Hoeryong Revolutionary Site, Kim Jong Suk's birthplace, and revolutionary sites and revolutionary battle sites in Ryanggang, South Hamgyong and Jagang provinces, looking back with deep emotion upon her brilliant revolutionary career.





Then we drove to a stamps shop. Typicial street in Pyongyang:


We were the only clients at the shop. I bought a t-shirt with the North Korean flag and the slogan "See you in Pyongyang" on it, as well as a book with transport-related stamps. Very interesting, that also foreign trains were shown on the stamps:





Back at the hotel we had lunch at the revolving restaurant on the top of it (on the 41st floor or so). The view was great alltough the revolving was switched off (maybe to save power...)

The main station seen from Yanggakdo hotel:


The famous unfinished Ryugyong hotel ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryugyong_Hotel ):


The skyline of Pyongyang:


Taedong river with Juche-tower and the Mayday-stadium in the background:


Juche-tower:


Our room on the 21st floor:


At 14:00 we left the hotel and drove to the Myohyang-mountains, about 120 km (as the crow flies) north of Pyongyang. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myohyang-san

Driving through Pyongyang:


Highway to Hyangsan:


Tunnel:


youtube-video of our car ride on the highway:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJRKisjboVE

There was of course no light inside the tunnel. As far as I know the North Korean highways were built in the 1990ies, but they are already in a relatively bad state. The bumpy asfalt doesn't allow speeds much over 100 km/h.
Traffic is scarce, we only see some tourist busses, some military trucks and very few "private" cars (maybe owned by high party members). However, North Korea is the first country in the world, which has adapted the "shared-space" concept ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shared_space ) also for highways: They are used by cars, bycicles and pedestrians!

During the trip we also saw some railway lines and trains, but due to the bumpy ride taking photos was quite a difficult task.

Railway bridge used by pedestrians:


After 2 hours we arrived at the Hyangsan hote – view from our room:




After a short break we drive to the start of the hiking trail "Manpok valley". Together with one of the two guides we walk up to a small pavillon . The trail was very scenic and leads to some waterfalls. However, there was only few water due to the season, but is was nevertheless beautiful.




As it was already late, there were only a few other people on the trail, we only met some North Korean tourists:


Me and our guide:


But also here in the nature the two Kims were omnipresent: On some rocks there were inscriptions, which mean something like "Or Leader Kim Jong Il (or Kim Il Sung) ordered, that this beautiful piece of nature should be preserved and made accesible for people...

When we returned to the car, it was already quite dark. We drove back to the hotel and had dinner.

BTW, during the car ride we noticed, that there was a 2nd road in this valley. We passed under it once, but there seemed to be no connection with the road we used. Very strange.
Also at the entry to the valley we saw a railway line, but then in the valley we saw no further evidence of it. Also strange.
We already knew, that there were such strange things in North Korea, so we kept our eyes open...

After I returned to Austria, I had to look at GoogleEarth and I found out that the 2nd road leads over many serpentines to the Hyangsan-chalet, a former residence of Kim Il Sung and the place, where he died in 1994. So was the road some kind of special elite-road and therefore seperated from the ordinary road? See also http://www.dailynk.com/english/read....nk02300&num=83

And the railway line, branching off the Kaechon – Kanggye line indeed ends only after a few meters at a so called "elite station" (according to the NorthKorea Uncovered overlay for GE), where the elite eventually transferred from train to car to get to the Hyangsan-chalet?
However, I also heared that earlier foreign tourists travelled to Mt. Myohang by train, so maybe they also used this station with special trains for tourists?

Last edited by nachalnik; November 10th, 2008 at 09:54 PM.
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Old November 9th, 2008, 11:12 PM   #99
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thank you for sharing us that last part of your trip i was really eager to read it especially cause it was a place we don't see much often... and greetings to SS forum too
i assume you were highly controlled for taking pictures, that's why there aren't any other photos than those already photographed many times before by other tourists...
well, i have few questions more...
how long were you staying in PY? did you have any forms of going out to city, maybe some night clubs or restaurants?
i saw a tv in your room... what channels were available there?
did you had chance of meeting some residents there and did you had some problems with doing something they didn't want you to do?
did you had problems in leaving the country on airport?
and last question... when you summarize all travel costs... how much did you spend for tickets from Wien to PyongYang?
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Old November 9th, 2008, 11:12 PM   #100
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Feel free to post some more informations I´m really impressed by your tour. Will you post some other parts? Like other experiences from NK? Or your tour to Beijing? Were you travelling by plane from Pyongyang to Beijing?

Quote:
So, now only the Ho Chi Minh mausoleum in Hanoi is missing in my "personal collection" of mausoleums with embalmed corpses of state founding leaders (there are four such mausoleums)!
The other two mausoleums you mean Stalin´s and Ataturk´s mausoleum?
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