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Old December 15th, 2014, 09:00 PM   #1101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
Yes, here it is:



Gosh, it looks awfully dark in there!
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Old December 15th, 2014, 09:06 PM   #1102
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Somebody didn't pay the bill last month
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Old December 20th, 2014, 03:05 AM   #1103
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With the new timetable since last sunday (2014-12-14) the new Vienna main station was opened for long-distance trains. Also some new routes/train services are now operated (e.g. ICE trains to Vienna aiport, railjet-service Graz-Wien-Praha, direct EC trains Wien-Beograd and Wien-Debrecen).

On sunday and the following days I took several photos:

---

Sunday 14th december 5h30 in the morning - ICE 325, 1st long distance train starting from Wien Hbf (dep 5h41), first long distance train serving the airport Vienna (arr 6h01):













Wien Hbf, track view on the eastern side:






EC 142 Debrecen - Budapest - Wien Hbf - Wien Westbf:


RJ 71 Praha - Wien Hbf - Graz:




ICE 23 Dortmund - Wien Hbf - Flughafen Wien:


D 408 Nice-Ville - Wien Hbf - Moskva Belorusskaja:










EN 462/60466 Budapest - Wien Hbf - München/Zürich:






EC 345 Wien Westbf - Wien Hbf - Budapest - Beograd:








EN 235/60235 Wien Hbf - Roma/Milano:


D 100 Wien Westbf - Wien Hbf - Bohumin, with sleeping car Wien - Moskva (3x weekly) and Wien - St. Petersburg (1x weekly):








EN 466 Wien Hbf - Zürich/Venezia and EN 420 Wien - Düsseldorf:












EC 150 Ljubljana - Wien Hbf:


ICE 324 Flughafen Wien - Wien Hbf - Linz:


Wien Meidling is now also ICE-station:


D 406 Wien Westbf - Wien Hbf - Warszawa/Krakow/Berlin:








EN 246 Wien Hbf - Bregenz:




EN 462 Budapest - München/Zürich:
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Old December 20th, 2014, 02:51 PM   #1104
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This is really the beginning of a new era for the city of Wien.
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Old December 21st, 2014, 10:27 AM   #1105
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Yes, thanks, Nachalnik for sacrificing your sleep for the sake of our forum. How is the station as a whole? The location I guess is not too bad, right near Belvedere and a leisurely stroll from the Ring. The direct surroundings of the Ost-/Südbahnhof never felt too urban, although that might still change. Tram and subways connect you into downtown quickly. The hyper-sterile aesthetic of new train stations in Switzerland and Austria however sometimes remind me more of a hospital than a lively downtown meeting place. How is the station from a point of practicality? Is it easy to connect between the different levels and to find your way? Is the mix of shops inside useful for travelers, or is intended more as the ubiquitous shopping mall? Any useful cafés or other places to hang around during a longer stopover? Questions over questions.
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Old December 21st, 2014, 05:06 PM   #1106
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Agree the new station is characterless. Shame the old stations were either damaged in the war or demolished. Vienna with such a rich architectural heritage should have a haupt bahnhof like frankfurt or dresden not a glass and steel ubiquitous station that looks like a new asian station.
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Old December 21st, 2014, 06:14 PM   #1107
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Those old stations also came with the old operational concept of having multiple terminals spread out all over the city. For the purpose of a modern railway one had to get rid of them eventually.
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Old December 21st, 2014, 06:21 PM   #1108
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Which is why I said this is a new era for Wien. Through services and a single main station, they now can build a much more powerful network of services based on this infrastructure.
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Old December 21st, 2014, 06:32 PM   #1109
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Since we're already talking about history. Austria's public broadcaster has created a documentary about the railway history of Austria and all the other areas of the empire. Unfortunately it is just available in German.

http://tvthek.orf.at/program/DokuMen...rs-1-2/8941644

http://tvthek.orf.at/program/DokuMen...rs-2-2/8941650
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Old December 22nd, 2014, 11:00 AM   #1110
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How have other cities in europe managed to keep their old historic stations built 100 years ago with the change in opeations? I dont always believe operations are the only factor if you keep an historical station or now?
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Old December 22nd, 2014, 02:31 PM   #1111
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Paris and London have kept up a system of mono-directional terminuses, but have added huge annexes (for example in Gare de Lyon, Gare du Nord, and St. Pancras) to cope with higher demand. This is mostly an option for very large cities, where most passengers travel either from or to the city and through journeys are minimal.
Many major cities have introduced new systems of through traffic including a tunnel through downtown: Barcelona, Brussels, Berlin, Bologna, now Vienna, soon Istanbul, Belgrade; why do they mostly start with B?). In these cases, completely new stations fit for the new design, or at least underground annexes, such as in Leipzig and Bologna, are often necessary.
A third option, which is not very efficient for traveling time or shunting, is to connect various terminuses around town by ring rail routes through the suburbs, as in Rome or Budapest.
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Old December 22nd, 2014, 04:37 PM   #1112
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How have other cities in europe managed to keep their old historic stations built 100 years ago with the change in opeations?
The most prominent example of that is probably Antwerp. Originally equipped
with 10 stub tracks on one level, with quite narrow platforms, it evolved into
a multi-level station with 6 stub tracks on the top level, 4 stub tracks on the
intermediate level, and 4 passage tracks at the lower level, combined with a
tunnel under the city. That allowed trains to head towards The Netherlands
without reversing, to increase the station capacity, and to accelerate
passenger flows, thanks to the much wider platforms. All of that was done
without touching the historical building nor the station shed.
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Old December 22nd, 2014, 06:12 PM   #1113
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I like Antwerp and it's railway station very much, but it's a small town compared to Vienna. Different needs, different solutions...
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Old December 22nd, 2014, 09:48 PM   #1114
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Many major cities have introduced new systems of through traffic including a tunnel through downtown: Barcelona, Brussels, Berlin, Bologna, now Vienna, soon Istanbul, Belgrade; why do they mostly start with B?).
Because you forgot Zürich The station just got 4 more underground tracks and an additional tunnel link.
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Old December 22nd, 2014, 11:06 PM   #1115
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Mea culpa! And I've even taken the diretissima to Oerlikon. But this is a case like Leipzig, Bologna, or Antwerp: the majority of the station remains a terminus, but a tunnel is added for a minority of through trains. What has happened in Vienna is more radical than this: the terminuses have been replaced by a through station.
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Old December 23rd, 2014, 12:05 AM   #1116
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The hyper-sterile aesthetic of new train stations in Switzerland and Austria however sometimes remind me more of a hospital than a lively downtown meeting place. How is the station from a point of practicality?
This is just my subjective view but I don't think the Hbf Wien is extremely sterile. Maybe the platforms, with this grey metal roof that creates the impression of a crystal hovering above them, look cold or sterile, but also impressive. The inside of the station however is dominated by the green very structured stone called Serpentinit. Also black somewhat reflecting wall panels and the bronze coloured metal frames around the shops etc are creating a peculiar atmosphere. I really don't think it looks sterile, to me it looks more like some retro-futurism. But it is very different from some historicist station of course. I would like to compare it to the ideals of Adolf Loos: Modern style, few to no ornaments but valuable often strongly structured high quality materials.

I can't really say how the station appears to someone who doesn't know it and sees it for the first time. I do think however that it is well designed from a practical point of view. In fact, the functionality is probably the strenght of the whole design. The main passage connecting to the platforms, leads directly to the main hall, where you have a very prominent and broad staircase with escalators, to the level -1 and -2 and a broad passage connects to the subterranian platforms 1 and 2, the tram lines O and 18 and at the very back to the subway line U1. To me this is as intuitive as it can be. A real highlight is the big departure board in the main hall. Many new stations scrapped that once essential centre of station life and replaced it with various small screens spreadout. I am happy that they did not do that here and actually spent quite some effort on integrating the screen in the overall design (it is actually slightly bent, along the railway bridge)

The shops and food stands along that way I described above are mostly useful for travelers. The fashion stores, the big supermarket etc are mostly located in the parts that are not at the heart of this connection, but they can be easily reached from there. Food stands are located at the level -1, and in the back of the main hall. Both are not in the direct line of the main passage way but directly next to it. The northern station square also has a McDonalds and a nice Italian chain restaurant (L'Osteria) which have pavement tables outside as well. Most importantly, there is a Café Oberlaa on the side of the southern station square. This is a Viennese coffee house chain of the traditional kind (table service, classic Viennese coffee card and desserts). This was a pleasent suprise for me, given that the shopping center is run by the German ECE group which likes to fill its centers with mainly German brands of the not very creative kind. The only terrible decision by the center management is the sport gambling cafe "Admiral" that was allowed to get one of the prime locations left of the north square entrance. I have no idea how they could allow this act of madness but so far, one can at least ignore it and it does not seem to have any visibly negative impact yet.

Last but not least, there are also plentiful non-commercial resting/waiting facilities inside the station (which is heated) but also some outside on the southern and northern square. This is quite different from many DB station which have been "optimized" towards forcing passangers to consume something if they want to rest.


PS: Here is a video showing the entire way from the U1 platform to a central Hbf platform in realtime: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ksw6P6trhvA
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Old December 23rd, 2014, 05:37 AM   #1117
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I agree the new station looks very practical and from a functionality point of view it is most probably more efficient as a new station. Its just when you see the old buildings and how grand they were it makes you think it would have been nice to try and retrofit the new with the old but not to be. Im sure many decisions over time have led to this not to mention the war....
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Old December 23rd, 2014, 09:19 AM   #1118
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Quote:
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Mea culpa! And I've even taken the diretissima to Oerlikon. But this is a case like Leipzig, Bologna, or Antwerp: the majority of the station remains a terminus, but a tunnel is added for a minority of through trains. What has happened in Vienna is more radical than this: the terminuses have been replaced by a through station.
Yes it is more comparable to Antwerp than Vienna. But don't underestimate the number of through trains. The distributor tracks to the west haven't been finished yet, once they are the number of through trains will raise drastically. There will be 8 through tracks vs. 18 stub tracks, but the through tracks have a much higher capacity!

Anyway the topic is Vienna. And I like what I see. Not spectacular but a smooth and modern design. The chosen materials are indeed similar to the modern Swiss station. Maybe that is what it makes it looks clean and sterile. Lot's of natural stones and glass for ground, floors and walls.

The only thing I am rather missing is a larger entrance hall with an gate like entrance towards the city. But maybe the station is a tad to far from the center for most to walk, so the connection to trams and U-Bahns is more important than the people entering and leaving the station by foot.
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Old December 23rd, 2014, 10:16 AM   #1119
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There will be 8 through tracks vs. 18 stub tracks, but the through tracks have a much higher capacity!
But it is worse for connections. I think more through tracks would have been better, maybe not 18, but 10 to 14. And I wouldn't have built through tracks without platforms (I know they are for freights, but these can also run through platform tracks, and in case a new freight bypass line will be built in the future, Wien Hbf will have to tracks that consume space but are not much used). Through tracks are never a good idea if the station is to be used by every kind of trains (on a regional station with a lot of transiting intercity and freight trains it's different),
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Old December 23rd, 2014, 05:28 PM   #1120
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I agree with you on the part that through tracks aren't great if there's not much of freight traffic to send over, but I don't consider them to be entirely useless. With the help of some track switches, through tracks can be used to more efficiently use platform space when there's a bunch of smaller/shorter trains. You only need one through track to effectively split up two regular/long platform tracks into four smaller ones, without limitations regarding a train's travel direction. This system is (often) being used in the Netherlands, for example at Nijmegen CS, Haarlem CS and Amsterdam CS.
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