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Old December 28th, 2013, 06:01 PM   #721
Urbanista1
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yes in Poland everything German is better and Poland sucks and anything a slav like a Russian does is generally inferior. This is more than a comment on architecture sadly , it reflects decades of an inferiority complex.
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Old December 29th, 2013, 01:08 PM   #722
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It's an incredible pity that you feel some inferiority complex. I'm with you, empathic and sorrowful.

Because I guess that your post is about you; my feeling has nothing common with ' inferiority complex ', although some nostalgia comes to my mind when I see various examples of German dominion. In eg. Upper Silesia, nothing better would happen in 19th century. The German architecture and range of their investments, excluding castles and another ' rich ' buildings, were simply the best from all Poland's invaders. Keeping the topic: see how many lines Germans built at the west side of Poland and how many train stations we have from them till nowadays (although quite many of them are just ruins). Then compare it to the east side.

It's nothing suprising or new, I guess. But let you focus at the current state of all German heritage (also the railway one). It's too bad, right? That's the point of my Poland's wrath (I feel that you tried to find something like it in my point of view): that Poles simply can't maintain what they have properly, but neglect. Then they often understand that they should care about what they had and build it anew.
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Kiedy padł ten pierwszy strzał, Kosteczku, to wszystko się zaczęło, zaczęli strzelać ci grenszuce, których chłopcy jeszcze nie zdążyli rozbroić, i zaczęli strzelać ci chłopcy, którzy już mieli jakieś karabiny albo nulachty, i posypało się trochę strzałów. Słyszałeś krzyki:
- Erich dostoł! - i do dziś nie wiesz, czy to krzyczał grenszuc, czy powstaniec.
Szczepan Twardoch, „Morfina”, o wybuchu I powstania śląskiego.

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Old December 29th, 2013, 02:09 PM   #723
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Neglect has nothing to do with nationality, but with years and years of underfunding. Half the country got blown to bits between 1939 and 1945 and for half a century afterwards under Soviet occupation there wasn't enough money to make things look pretty, but barely enough to make them keep functioning...
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Old December 29th, 2013, 05:05 PM   #724
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From my point of view it's not exactly as you've told. The biggest neglect of infrastructure (also the railway one) happened in 90's and 2000's, so after the socialist era, when there were some possibilities of funding renevals, especially after 2004.

But you're right that during the socialist era there was enough money and (what's the most important) DESIRE to keep all the infrastructure able to being used.
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No půdź sam synek, půdź do nos sam, tu momy fajer, tu fajer jes, ja!

Kiedy padł ten pierwszy strzał, Kosteczku, to wszystko się zaczęło, zaczęli strzelać ci grenszuce, których chłopcy jeszcze nie zdążyli rozbroić, i zaczęli strzelać ci chłopcy, którzy już mieli jakieś karabiny albo nulachty, i posypało się trochę strzałów. Słyszałeś krzyki:
- Erich dostoł! - i do dziś nie wiesz, czy to krzyczał grenszuc, czy powstaniec.
Szczepan Twardoch, „Morfina”, o wybuchu I powstania śląskiego.

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Old December 29th, 2013, 05:35 PM   #725
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MajKeR_ View Post
From my point of view it's not exactly as you've told. The biggest neglect of infrastructure (also the railway one) happened in 90's and 2000's, so after the socialist era, when there were some possibilities to funding renevals, especially after 2004.

But you're right that during the socialist era there was enough money and (what's the most important) DESIRE to keep all the infrastructure able to being used.
You got a point. The biggest infrastructure negligence started to take place in 80s when Poland was in economical crisis and that continued in crazy years of transformation in 90's. Actually we have been having real progress in just last 10 years.
I also agree that till now at least Poles are not the best in maintain existing infrastructure. Lots of infrastructure is vandalized very quickly after opening to the public because simply there is no one to think about security and employing people to maintain and secure area. It changes now. Hopefully it will continue this way.
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Old December 30th, 2013, 06:16 PM   #726
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Proterra View Post
Neglect has nothing to do with nationality, but with years and years of underfunding. Half the country got blown to bits between 1939 and 1945 and for half a century afterwards under Soviet occupation there wasn't enough money to make things look pretty, but barely enough to make them keep functioning...
Poles can build just as well as anyone, it is indeed a matter of funding and more recently a shortage of skilled workers, because so many skilled workers left for the west after 2004. I'm not saying that what Prussians and Germans built was bad at all, they did indeed leave some great infrastructure, but they also destroyed almost all of it, especially in Warsaw area during WWII. Over 23,000 train car loads of machinery, art and personal belongings were shipped out after Warsaw was completely destroyed, far worse than Nagasaki and Hiroshima combined, looking at total numbers of people and buildings. Post-war Poland was re-occupied and the killings of skilled people and plunder of all that had value continued, so now post occupations, Poland has had to catch-up to the rest of Europe on a massive scale. No one in Europe has had the same challenge and yet we have managed very well. This is why I bristle when I hear everything Germans do is great, I have nothing against them today, it's just we are doing extremely well too given our huge challenges. If we had the money, we must preserve German heritage on our soil too, some of it is truly exceptional.
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Old December 31st, 2013, 06:27 AM   #727
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Chengdu-Łodź -fastest train connection between China and Europe (Łodź is called the heart of Europe by the Chinese parters )







another connection was opened by the Cargosped (PKP Cargo) in cooperation with Far East Land Bridge and Russian Railways Logistics

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Old December 31st, 2013, 02:39 PM   #728
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MajKeR_ View Post
vs.:



See the difference between stations built by Germans and Russians. Maybe the German ones look somewhat like disneyland, but their standard, quality and some artistry is incredibly higher. When the Świebodzice station is a piece of art, Sieradz seems to be a small station in some poor village...
What about Lublin?:
http://fotopolska.eu/135562,foto.html?o=b5401&p=1
or Białystok?:
http://fotopolska.eu/178749,foto.html
Are they inferior?
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Old December 31st, 2013, 08:30 PM   #729
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Let's compare this with another photo (published on skyscrapercity.com some time ago):



Main railway station in Warsaw, 1945.
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Old January 1st, 2014, 05:26 AM   #730
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That one was built by Poles, what a disaster.
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Old January 1st, 2014, 06:55 PM   #731
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chauffeur View Post
And what about their importance and size (and importance as well) of cities, where there are built - formerly and nowadays?
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No půdź sam synek, půdź do nos sam, tu momy fajer, tu fajer jes, ja!

Kiedy padł ten pierwszy strzał, Kosteczku, to wszystko się zaczęło, zaczęli strzelać ci grenszuce, których chłopcy jeszcze nie zdążyli rozbroić, i zaczęli strzelać ci chłopcy, którzy już mieli jakieś karabiny albo nulachty, i posypało się trochę strzałów. Słyszałeś krzyki:
- Erich dostoł! - i do dziś nie wiesz, czy to krzyczał grenszuc, czy powstaniec.
Szczepan Twardoch, „Morfina”, o wybuchu I powstania śląskiego.
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Old January 2nd, 2014, 09:10 PM   #732
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MajKeR
And what about their importance and size (and importance as well) of cities, where there are built - formerly and nowadays?
Good point. We already asked you for this (in case of Sieradz, Świebodzice and Kluczbork):
Quote:
Originally Posted by dexter2
I would like to see populations these 3 towns at the time the stations were built.
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 02:08 AM   #733
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And according to this the shortest option by train is 3h 47 min... It's just 100 km distance... It shows in how condition the line from Kraków to Zakopane actually is.


Kraków-Zakopane distance is 148km. Best time in good time- 2:30. The average speed ~60km/h. Between Kalwaria Zebrzydowska-Nowy Targ only max 60-70km/h. Nowy Targ-Zakopane v100. Very hard line. Too much meanders. Left, right, left, right...
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 05:17 AM   #734
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Modernization of Warsaw - Gdansk line:

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Originally Posted by blady View Post
Rakowice


Rakowice


Widukt na DK-15 w Rakowicach


Iława, tor 6.


Nad torami 1 i 2 sieć prawie gotowa. (zdjęcia trochę stare)


Iława - w stronę Rakowic


Nowy rozjazd nr 153 w torze 2 z Rudzienic.






Ogólnie bardzo sprawnie im to idzie. Ostatnie zdjęcie już nie aktualne. Rozjazdy 147, 155, 156 położone i obsypane tłuczniem. W styczniu powinni otworzyć peron 3, tory od 6 do 10, łącznicę osobową oraz tor 2 na szlaku Zajączkowo - Rakowice.
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 03:05 PM   #735
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Which line in Poland currently has the highest average speed?
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 05:06 PM   #736
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Oh, it's still (Warsaw) - Grodzisk Maz. - Zawiercie - (Katowice), so called Central Rail Line, isn't it?
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 05:14 PM   #737
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yeap
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 06:56 PM   #738
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rakcancer View Post
yeap
Nope.

I actually looked it up a while ago for another thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesy55 View Post
Being the sad loser that I am, I decided to spend several hours comparing rail services in different regions of western europe a few days ago using the various national rail websites, here are the results.

I’ve chosen a few selected journeys on the regular rail routes around Western Europe and looked at the various national rail websites to see timings, ticket prices (and ticket availability) to make a comparison of rail services.

The figures for each trip are

1, Distance between cities (from viamichelin.com)
2, Average time of best services (doesn’t include much slower or indirect services if there is a regular fast service)
3, Average speed
4, Cost for return ticket leaving next day (returning day after)
5, Cost for return ticket leaving in 7 days (returning day after)
6, Cost for return ticket leaving in 1 month (returning day after)
7, Average cost per 100km
8, Frequency of services
9, Number of changes required

All costs have been converted to € for comparison
Average speeds on the Warszawa-Poznań stretch are actually a few kilometres faster than on the CMK. I do expect however, that CMK will be the fastest again coming December when the Pendolino's are put into service...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Proterra View Post
Poland

Used trains of the company TLK as much as possible, they're the most average in price, speed and comfort.

Poznań-Szczecin
1, 243 kilometres
2, 2:45
3, 88.4 km/h
4, €24,40
5, €24,40
6, €24,40
7, €5,02
8, 17 daily (10 TLK)
9, 0

Kraków-Warszawa
1, 296 kilometres
2, 3:20
3, 88,9 km/h
4, €29,27
5, €29,27
6, €29,27
7, €4,94
8, 20 daily (9 TLK)
9, 0

Łódź-Białystok

1, 319 kilometres
2, 5:15
3, 60,8 km/h
4, €29,27
5, €29,27
6, €29,27
7, €4,59
8, 11 daily (5 TLK)
9, Usually 1 change in Warszawa, on direct train every day.

Currently the fastest train in Poland is the EIC 1803 CHROBRY from Warszawa to Szczecin, which averages 98,7 km/h over the entire stretch out of Warszawa to Szczecin, and between Kutno and Poznan it averages 124 km/h.

The slowest regular trains in Poland can be found on any line out of Kraków (except to Warszawa) due to massive construction going on there. The fastest scheduled rail connection between Katowice and Rzeszów right now makes it up to a staggering average of 38,2 km/h between the two cities with one change in Kraków.

Kraków to Zakopane isn't much better with the fastest train averaging 42,9 km/h (REGIO 33123 JANOSIK)

The fastest (non-Warszawa) regular connection out of Kraków is the one to Nowy Sącz with an average of 46,6 km/h.
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Old January 4th, 2014, 04:36 PM   #739
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Proterra View Post

Average speeds on the Warszawa-Poznań stretch are actually a few kilometres faster than on the CMK. I do expect however, that CMK will be the fastest again coming December when the Pendolino's are put into service...
This is only due to works on CMK. Once they done it will be the fastest line again.
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Old January 4th, 2014, 05:12 PM   #740
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Won't it be a lot faster when the new Pendolinos are in service?
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