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Old March 26th, 2015, 10:59 PM   #1301
Urbanista1
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Originally Posted by Max Mar View Post
[B]It's may be a lot now, but let's not forget that many countries built their expressway network mostly in the 1960's-1970's and much faster and more kilometers per year than Poland does today . In fact, Poland never started seriously to build an expressway network till 5 years ago! But, it's now dangerously slowing down, and there will still be none of them finished between many major cities for at least 2020-2030! .
Not sure what you mean. I travelled in Poland recently on expressways (140-160 km/h) between Warsaw - Poznan, Warsaw-Gdansk, Krakow-Katowice-Wroclaw and to Germany. These were expressways and it was a great ride compared to the highways in Canada where you can go max 120 km/h. Also, expressways between Poznan-Wroclaw, Warsaw-Bialystok, Warsaw-Lublin are under construction, only problem is slow progress on Krakow-Warsaw. So I'm not sure what this 2020-2030 date is for?
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Warsaw Post-War Reconstruction to Present
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Old March 27th, 2015, 01:44 AM   #1302
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New Stadler Flirt's (Made in Poland) for the Warszawa - Bydgoszcz, Olsztyn - Kraków, Gdynia - Katowice (przez Łódź) & Kraków - Szczecin (passing through CMK, Łódź, Poznań) lines
Stadler crap for such long distances?
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Old March 27th, 2015, 01:50 AM   #1303
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Refurbished small Łęczyca railway station in Łęczyca, Lodzkie (Central Poland)



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I don't like those modernized station buildings in Poland. The old ones are much more charming and authentic. They can better use the money for keeping ticket offices and waiting rooms open at smaller stations.

At this building, there are big differences between the old and the new situation. Are the decorations on the renovated building based on the original building long ago? Or are these just a fantasy of the architects?
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Old March 27th, 2015, 11:50 AM   #1304
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^ Maybe you should show us how "charming", and "authentic" is your country. Please.
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Old March 27th, 2015, 12:53 PM   #1305
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At this building, there are big differences between the old and the new situation. Are the decorations on the renovated building based on the original building long ago? Or are these just a fantasy of the architects?
Probably all of them are restored to their original state. I don't know where you've seen demolished details while there are many stations turned precisely to original from very changed form (e.g. Gryfino)... What's more, there are stations which are criticised because of their original scheme - like Wrocław. Train stations generally are perhaps the best restored buildings in Poland, as decently they're being done.
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Old March 27th, 2015, 01:53 PM   #1306
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Hahaha, we see that you are not used to drive in Poland: 7 hours it's what took me to go to Zakopane from Warsaw last week by car, and it's far from being crossing the whole country .
I drive on average 60-70 000 kilometres per year, 90-95% of which in Poland, on commuting alone I drive 42 000 kilometres per year, all on DK47, S7 and A4.

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Warszawa-Białystok doesn't have rail service at the moment (though, they is a bus service instead) because the line is being improved and modernized for fast traffic, just like Warsaw-Gdansk, Katowice, Krakow, Lodz, Wroclaw so there are huge investments and building in the rail sector for high-speed, unlike for roads - still not a single expressway for all these destinations!

Plus, it's faster to reach almost any major city in Poland by train than by car: 3 hours to Gdansk vs. 4h30-5h by car, 2h30 to krakow vs. 5h by car, 2h30 to Katowice vs. 3h30-4h by car, 3h40 to Wroclaw vs. 4h30-5h by car, so you see expressways are for trains and still not for road users .
From Warszawa, yes. But in fact, every higher-speed (can't technically even use "high-speed here, as it requires a minimum speed of 240 km/h, and only 95 kilometres of rail in western Świętokrzyskie allows such speeds) railway line where trains can go >160 km/h radiates out of the capital, with the only exception being the railway from Gliwice to Bolesławiec.

All the other upgraded railway lines are Warszawa-Poznań-Berlin/Szczecin, Warszawa-Gdańsk and Warszawa-Włoszczowa-Wrocław/Katowice/Kraków.

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Smaller destinations like Nowy Targ are a bit longer in fact, but due to this high speed lanes it's still faster to reach than by car, even when you're traveling from Warsaw or Gdansk.
You should also know that DK7-DK47 "Zakopianka" is a very dangerous road actually - with many crossroads and pedestrians crossings on middle of sharp blind turns, which would need, inexisting for the moment, investments to improve and to become far safer expressway.
Not just smaller destinations such as Nowy Targ, but also "smaller" destinations such as Kraków for example. Kraków - Rzeszów is about 4 hours by train, and 1hr30 by car. Kraków-Katowice is about 2 hours by train, and 45 minutes by car. Kraków-Bielsko: 3 hours with the train, 1hr20 by car. Kraków-Nowy Sącz: 3hr50 by train, 1hr45 by car.

The only relations where a train offers competitive speeds when compared to driving yourself is to Warszawa (2hr30 by train, 4 hours by car), Gdańsk (5hr25 with train, around 6 hours by car) and Częstochowa/Wrocław (1hr30/3hr15 by train, similar times by car) - the latter only because PKP makes a 100 kilometre detour through Świętokrzyskie to utilize the higher-speed lines radiating from the capital.

I am quite sure the same counts for more places in Poland which are not called Warszawa.

Regarding Zakopianka, I know it fairly well, because I drive over 40 000 kilometres on this road each year. The road is not so much a problem, as the capacity is. The biggest problem are the stoplights in Skomielna Biała and the split DK7/DK47 in Rabka, both of which are to be removed in the next five years when the S7 is being finished to Chabówka. by means of a tunnel worth nearly three billion. DK47 Rdzawka-Szaflary being upgraded to Class GP will eliminate all bottlenecks on that road all the way to Biały Dunajec.

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And what you said is untrue: new roads opening in Poland were closer to 300 km per year for the last 4-5 years, than what you claimed, plus only about 1/3rd of these roads were motorway-expressway standards (except for 2012 - EURO2012), so it's basically 1-lane per direction or improvement/reconstruction of existing main roads that were on very pity condition (potholes, ruts, bumps) and extremely dangerous to drive on.
I was looking at the average since 2010, and yes, that includes a nearly 700-kilometre year for Euro 2012. Except for 2012, construction has indeed been closer to 300 than 400 kilometres per year, but 2012 takes the average up quite a bit. But really, does it matter for what reason the roads are built, as long as they're built it works for me. And all of these are 2- or 3-lane highways.

Indeed, very little of this was constructed in and around Warszawa, but then again, contrary to what most people from Warszawa think, Poland is not just the bit between Raszyn and Wołomin.

You may find statistics here.

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That's very bad when considering that Poland has one of the shortest expressway network in whole European Union.
5 years ago, yes. Right now Poland has more motorway (2850 kilometres) which is more than either the Netherlands (2758 kilometres) and almost as much as the UK (3502 kilometres). France, Germany, Italy and Spain have more, in the case of Germany almost four times as much, all other countries in the EU (far) less.

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Originally Posted by Max Mar View Post
It's may be a lot now, but let's not forget that many countries built their expressway network mostly in the 1960's-1970's and much faster and more kilometers per year than Poland does today . In fact, Poland never started seriously to build an expressway network till 5 years ago!


Thanks to WW2 which did not end in Poland until 1989. But let's not live in the past, the reality is that we're catching up rapidly. The Polish motorway network went from virtually non-existent to the sixth largest in the EU in less than a decade.

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Originally Posted by Max Mar View Post
But, it's now dangerously slowing down, and there will still be none of them finished between many major cities for at least 2020-2030! Also, many developing countries are building far more expressways right now, and it's not just China.
It's slowing down for 2015-16, due to 2012-13 being low on money for new contracts. In 2017 there will be another 400 or 500 kilometres finished. We'll probably have close to 4000 or maybe even 4500 kilometres of motorways by 2020, the way it looks now.

As for developing countries, some of them are quick, sure. They often also don't have laws protecting the environment or people's private property. The fact that stuff ends up being expensive and/or slow(ish) is the price one pays for living in a civilized country with rule of law.

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Even Germany opened an impressive 1'000 kilometers of high-quality Autobahns a year during the 1930's.
Using slave labour, rule by decree, instead of rule of law, and some other aspects due to which we don't look at 1930's Germany with much envy. Particularly not in Poland.
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Old March 28th, 2015, 01:12 PM   #1307
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^ Maybe you should show us how "charming", and "authentic" is your country. Please.
In the Netherlands, nothing is charming and authentic anymore.
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Old March 28th, 2015, 01:18 PM   #1308
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Probably all of them are restored to their original state. I don't know where you've seen demolished details while there are many stations turned precisely to original from very changed form (e.g. Gryfino)... What's more, there are stations which are criticised because of their original scheme - like Wrocław. Train stations generally are perhaps the best restored buildings in Poland, as decently they're being done.
Kutno is another example.

I think it's disgusting. Some strange artwork attached to the building. However, the interior of that station is very comfortable. No single station in the Netherlands of the size with such outstanding facilities.
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Old March 28th, 2015, 02:30 PM   #1309
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I think you're exaggerating. There's nothing disgusting in adding a bit of a modern touch to a historical railway station. Reading your post one could get the idea that they demolished the station and replaced it with some mediocre 1970s architecture.
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Old March 28th, 2015, 04:34 PM   #1310
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In the Netherlands, nothing is charming and authentic anymore.
As far as i know Dutch architecture, and urban planning is one of the most fascinating in the world. I have seen modernised infrastructure, revitalised surroundings, and were top notch. What can i say, as for me, MVDRV is much more stylish than another one Bauhaus copy. Probably only failure i have seen is the extension designed by Hadid. I wish Poland was so unauthentic and ugly like NL.
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Last edited by DualMana; March 28th, 2015 at 05:27 PM.
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Old March 28th, 2015, 06:11 PM   #1311
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Originally Posted by SvMp View Post
Stadler crap for such long distances?
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Originally Posted by SvMp View Post
In the Netherlands, nothing is charming and authentic anymore.
Can't you see this guy is a troll? Stop feeding him
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Old March 30th, 2015, 12:22 PM   #1312
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Oborniki Śląskie





https://www.facebook.com/Ministerstw...type=1&theater
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Old March 30th, 2015, 03:05 PM   #1313
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Old April 1st, 2015, 12:05 AM   #1314
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I think it's disgusting. Some strange artwork attached to the building. However, the interior of that station is very comfortable. No single station in the Netherlands of the size with such outstanding facilities.
Just because of some corten additions with folk shapes cut? I guess your disgust might be bigger if someone decide to place there very modern-looking roof, instead of this, which is also modern, but classic. By majority those new additions are being considered well and I'm one of these, as I'm fan of corten if to do something new at historic buildings.
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Old April 1st, 2015, 05:35 PM   #1315
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Gdansk main Railway Station with new tracks for SKM:
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Kilka ujęć z okolic Dworca Głównego:


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Old April 2nd, 2015, 04:59 PM   #1316
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Nice shot, everything are so new, except EN57 (king of polish railways ) .
Fastest train in the West Pomeranian province:

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Old April 2nd, 2015, 07:07 PM   #1317
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First of total 4 PESA Links oredered by Greater Poland Voivodeship is already in service.
Ordered PESAs will serve lines from Poznan to Wągrowiec and Wolsztyn.



SOURCE:
http://www.rynek-kolejowy.pl/56722/p...pasazerami.htm
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Old April 4th, 2015, 03:02 PM   #1318
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Old April 5th, 2015, 03:16 PM   #1319
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Rumia. Library located inside the station.

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Before & After
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Old April 5th, 2015, 04:20 PM   #1320
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This is Rumia? I can't believe it... what a transformation! I like the idea of combining train stations with libraries.
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