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Old January 2nd, 2013, 08:21 PM   #4461
and802
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singidunum View Post
Marked with yellow what is signed to be built by Chinese companies



They are also probably going to be involved in the new central station for Belgrade, railway on corridor X, new thermal power station in Kostolac and the Danube-Aegan canal

2nd Danube bridge in Belgrade, Ruma-Šabac and the Morava corridor are built by China Road and Bridge Corporation

Corridor XI is built by Shandong Hi-Speed Group Corporation (Shandong Gaosu Group)

Novi Sad - Srpska is to be built by Chongqing International Construction Corporation

Belgrade bypass is to be built by China Communications Construction

I am happy the road infrastructure in Serbia gets a new direction.
I understand that Serbia unlike Bulgaria cannot count on EU money - that is way the Chinese way has been chosen.
aren't you somehow afraid that the financial conditions are very severe and in fact China will take a kind of control over these routes ? I know it sounds a little bit silly but China is not a direction Serbia should tie up in future. I believe for Serbia there is another direction: EU or - alternatively - Russia
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Old January 2nd, 2013, 09:07 PM   #4462
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It's quite simple really - China has set aside a sum of some ~10 billion euros for funding of infrastructure projects in Eastern Europe, to be disbursed at very low interest rates - and Serbia's government has seen an opportunity here.

Actually, its quite better if we compare it to loans we have recieved in the past from the likes of EIB or EBRD, as all of the contracts so far signed with Chinese automatically involve local Serbian construction firms as well - between 45 and 50% of all work will be carried out by them, as is the case with already U/C "China-Serbia Friendship Bridge" in Belgrade, where Chinese are building the bridge itself while local companies complete some 20km+ of access roads.
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Old January 2nd, 2013, 10:47 PM   #4463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazySerb View Post
Here's a somewhat larger version:

[...]
You just don't like to reveal your sources
Thanks anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sallae2 View Post
900 x 1238

http://www.belehrad.sk/images/dalnice.jpg

it is old map from 2006
i believe it is unofficial map
for this link.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 01:23 AM   #4464
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I'm more worried about Serbia taking on to much debt. Serbia is a relatively poor country, with declining popluation, and the construction of so many motorways also means that the loans to build them will have to be returned. I'm not sure that all of them are economically viable.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 04:52 AM   #4465
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Not building those motorways that have been signed for in the past few weeks is also not economically viable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by and802 View Post
aren't you somehow afraid that the financial conditions are very severe and in fact China will take a kind of control over these routes ? I know it sounds a little bit silly but China is not a direction Serbia should tie up in future. I believe for Serbia there is another direction: EU or - alternatively - Russia
Not having the freedom to use a development fund because it is Chinese and not EUro-pean is also not a direction Serbia should tie up in the future. The conditions of the loans that have been taken from the Chinese fund for the development of Eastern Europe are quite favourable from what I have seen, they also include local companies, thus actually contributing to the development of the country that takes them, as opposed to "development loans" that require you to give 100% of the money back to the lender nation the day you get it, because you are required to give the job/purchase to one of their companies - which in fact makes it a loan to you for their development.

I see this as much better than taking a loan from the IWF or World Bank. There are no political strings attached, it isn't used to push anything in Serbia or to make them adopt or change policies, there are no requirements to do political or fiscal things.

Last edited by MareCar; January 3rd, 2013 at 05:10 AM.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 11:20 AM   #4466
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Progress of the connecting road of Belgrade's New Danube bridge.

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Old January 3rd, 2013, 12:32 PM   #4467
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That would be the northern branch of SMT....phase 2 up to zrenjaninski put:




Last edited by CrazySerb; January 4th, 2013 at 12:53 AM.
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Old January 4th, 2013, 12:49 AM   #4468
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokiboy View Post
I'm more worried about Serbia taking on to much debt. Serbia is a relatively poor country, with declining popluation, and the construction of so many motorways also means that the loans to build them will have to be returned. I'm not sure that all of them are economically viable.
Aren't the motorways going to be tolled? You should add in the grace period time frame. I am sure the people in the western Serbia can't wait to use them anyhow.
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Old January 4th, 2013, 12:55 AM   #4469
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There's been a fresh confirmation that construction on the second carriageway of Belgrade's motorway bypass, between Dobanovci and Ostruznica, will begin in March. Work has been sluggish recently, mostly concentrated on Batajnica interchange, but hopefully, things will start picking up this year.


Until then, handful of aerial images of the bypass - some seen before, some not:












































Last edited by CrazySerb; January 4th, 2013 at 01:09 AM.
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Old January 4th, 2013, 02:55 PM   #4470
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Great pics
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Old January 4th, 2013, 06:30 PM   #4471
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Some bad news...it looks like the Beska bridge case will now be heard in front of the court, after Roads of Serbia and Austrian contractor Alpine failed to agree over the final cost of the project - Austrians are demanding 40 million euros more than initially agreed due to unforeseen cost overruns.

Google-translated:

Quote:
Most Beška go to arbitration?

T. Spalević | 03 January 2013. 20:58 | 9 comments

"Roads of Serbia" and Austrian "Alpine" have not yet agreed on the price of the bridge on the Danube. Serbia value of the deal is estimated at a maximum around 62 million euros, 40 million contractor seeks more

From the opening of the new bridge over the Danube River at location has been more than a year, and how such capital facility costs Serbia is not yet known. Investor "Roads of Serbia" and the contractor Austrian "Alpine" have not yet reached an agreement, and that the assessment of the two parties at variance, "heavy" as many as 40 million, it is almost certain that the case "Beska" arbitration is resolved, "Novosti ".

The fact is that the government has admitted, the "Alpina" was extra work, which went up the contract price. The main contract for the construction of the bridge was signed in 2006. and the value of the works was 2.9 billion. However, the deal was entered into with the project and the main show what else needs to be done, such as landslide repair, protect piers of the existing bridge ... "Alpina" is underlined line at 102 million euros, and the "Roads of Serbia" have so far recognized the cost of about 62 million, which is the last offer investors artist.

We sent the "Alpini" our estimate and if no agreement is reached go to arbitration - say the "news" in the "Roads of Serbia". - We will seek to change the arbitrator, because we demand it to be someone who is not biased, and who will suit both sides, and the current "rooting" for the "Alpine".

In late January, "Roads of Serbia" and "Alpina" signed a memorandum was agreed 42 of the 43 items in the negotiations over the price and then there was a figure of 5.64 billion. Competent in "Roads of Serbia" emphasized that there is an open question about the deadline extension built on the basis of which the "Alpina" to look for extra money. From that to this day is clearly not impressive.

Example Beska bridge should be a lesson for Serbia to never work no agreement on a procedure that involves the design and construction.
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Old January 4th, 2013, 06:32 PM   #4472
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Beska bridge:























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Old January 4th, 2013, 06:41 PM   #4473
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Circa 2 230 meters long according to a Google Earth measurement.
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Old January 4th, 2013, 06:50 PM   #4474
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Rehabilitation work on its older, run-down twin is in final stages...should be complete by Spring:

















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Old January 4th, 2013, 11:25 PM   #4475
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The Beska bridge was the one distroied by the NATO bombing in 1999? Correct me if I am wrong!

Serbia is doing a great job improving its infrastructure!
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Old January 5th, 2013, 12:12 AM   #4476
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Not destroyed though they certainly tried, it was bombed on two occasions but there was hardly a scratch. The bridge was repaired and in service by July 1999, less than a month later.

Serbian concrete mixture is world-renowned for its toughness
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Old January 5th, 2013, 10:32 AM   #4477
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Not destroyed though they certainly tried, it was bombed on two occasions but there was hardly a scratch. The bridge was repaired and in service by July 1999, less than a month later.

Serbian concrete mixture is world-renowned for its toughness
I don't want to underestimate your concrete but NATO aiming at that time was also notoriously inaccurate since they managed to hit a roof in Sofia's neighbourhood Gorna Banya while bombing Srbia.
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Old January 5th, 2013, 10:47 PM   #4478
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aren't you somehow afraid that the financial conditions are very severe and in fact China will take a kind of control over these routes ?
No, I don't care about that at all. As the matter of fact, Belgrade-Obrenovac section will probably be under Chinese concession control immediately. And even if things go very bad and Serbia fails to pay back the debt and is forced to hand over the tolls to China I don't care, the roads are there to stay.

And as CrazySerb said Chinese loans are, while not the same thing as the EU funds, pretty good, low interest rates, quick approval and construction and involvement of local companies. With the EU (and especially Russian loans since you've mentioned them too) it takes forever to agree a loan, conditions are usually severe and the local employment comes down to the lowest level workforce.
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Old January 6th, 2013, 10:58 AM   #4479
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singidunum View Post
No, I don't care about that at all. As the matter of fact, Belgrade-Obrenovac section will probably be under Chinese concession control immediately. And even if things go very bad and Serbia fails to pay back the debt and is forced to hand over the tolls to China I don't care, the roads are there to stay.

And as CrazySerb said Chinese loans are, while not the same thing as the EU funds, pretty good, low interest rates, quick approval and construction and involvement of local companies. With the EU (and especially Russian loans since you've mentioned them too) it takes forever to agree a loan, conditions are usually severe and the local employment comes down to the lowest level workforce.
well, I do not know the detail conditions and I do not want to go off-topic here, but having part of my own infrastructure out of control makes me dependent on the owner.
well, of course if China has only one short route, then it does not matter a lot, the problem is if Chinese invest in different branches of you national values. then sooner or later Chinese will have an impact on your internal matters.
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Old January 6th, 2013, 12:43 PM   #4480
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very nice pics on this page!
I'm wondering how much time it will take to go from Borcha to the center of Belgrade in a non-rush hour when the bridge in completed and how the bridge in going to affect the realestate prices in Borcha? thanks!
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