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Old August 28th, 2010, 10:12 PM   #1281
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http://i34.************/2ccx85f.jpg

Nice contrast, 1975 - 2010
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Old August 29th, 2010, 12:18 PM   #1282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazySerb View Post
Austrian firm Alpina GmbH is the main contractor
But they donīt do the job they always use Serbian subcontractors that conduct real work.
They are like administration.
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Old August 29th, 2010, 04:47 PM   #1283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazySerb View Post
Austrian firm Alpina GmbH is the main contractor
Thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad_Hafen View Post
But they donīt do the job they always use Serbian subcontractors that conduct real work.
They are like administration.
The same is here, in Romania.
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Old August 29th, 2010, 09:53 PM   #1284
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so the same corruption in our shitty states
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Old August 30th, 2010, 03:54 AM   #1285
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No, that's usual, they do that in Western countries as well, that's normal in that business.
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Old August 30th, 2010, 06:35 PM   #1286
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Couple of more fresh photos (dated 28.08.2010) from the construction site of Dimitrovgrad bypass (Nis-Dimitrovgrad motorway):





































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Old August 30th, 2010, 06:59 PM   #1287
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interesting, Serbian government had been talking about building motorway from Beograd to Požega and MNE border, and we were mostly kinda shocked with that decision to built that rout prior to connection to MK and BG. it seems they have realized and gave priority to those more important routes. of course, motorway to MNE is not excluded, but connections to MK and BG are really prior. that's really good they are thinking reasonable!

are there some rumours or plans about tolling Beograd - Horgoš motorway? when they finish it, they could easily implement closed system there.
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Old August 30th, 2010, 10:53 PM   #1288
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theyīve started building also Belgrade-Bar motorway.
As of closed toll system it is planned on whole route.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MareCar View Post
No, that's usual, they do that in Western countries as well, that's normal in that business.
Whatīs normal in doing nothing and taking money?
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Old August 31st, 2010, 06:40 AM   #1289
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Quote:
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interesting, Serbian government had been talking....
They certainly do talk a lot. Nothing wrong with that, if of course they would at least match their words with action.

This past weekend, during the opening ceremony for a new tourist narrow-gauge railway linking Serbia with Republika Srpska, they even used the opportunity to announce construction of a new motorway between Pozega and Visegrad within "five to ten years" - great but first, one must reach Pozega

Btw, I personally consider construction of a motorway towards Montenegro's port of Bar a much higher priority than one towards Bulgaria & Macedonia - since it passes through some of the most populated parts of Serbia, near cities such as Valjevo, Cacak, Uzice, Kraljevo, Novi Pazar, all of which have a population of ~100k or more. Not to mention the need to make that road safer for hundreds of thousands of tourists who head to Montenegro each summer.
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Old August 31st, 2010, 06:49 AM   #1290
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Work continues on the new Beska bridge (~2,200m in length):

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Old August 31st, 2010, 07:12 AM   #1291
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Quote:
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Whatīs normal in doing nothing and taking money?
It's normal in that only big companies like PORR, Alpina, Hochtief etc. have the money and capacities to take and guarantee the execution of that job. They can accept liability and vouch for the work, they have the engineering capacities to work out and plan the project and do all the engineering work and oversee the projects and the correct works so that the bridges don't collapse and the motorways don't fall apart, but the actual work on the ground is done by sub-contractors under supervision, instruction, guidiance and inspection of the big companies' engineers.
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Old August 31st, 2010, 01:12 PM   #1292
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The money is provided by banks, so it is not their money. Capacity they donīt use their capacities so that "argument" is also false. They donīt do the planing they are provided with plan that other company did. Serbia has more than capable companies to build bridges and roads and they do it with their capacity not with Porr or Alpina capacity.
They get the job because of the corruption not their capabilities and that is well known fact.
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Old August 31st, 2010, 01:45 PM   #1293
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Horgos - Novi Sad update (section near Subotica)


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Originally Posted by djomla View Post
Stormove slike sa koridora...


Deoni na kojoj je skinut sloj zemlje čime se došlo do kote 0. Spremno je za nanošenje prvog sloja u vidu peska.


Nanošenje preska






Izravnat pesak spreman za nanošenje sloja sitnog kamena


Deonica sa slojem sitnog kamena debljine 40cm, spremna za nanošenje prvog sloja asfalta.


Zalivanje koridora.





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Last edited by Sawovsky; August 31st, 2010 at 02:00 PM.
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Old August 31st, 2010, 04:21 PM   #1294
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Quote:
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The money is provided by banks, so it is not their money. Capacity they donīt use their capacities so that "argument" is also false. They donīt do the planing they are provided with plan that other company did. Serbia has more than capable companies to build bridges and roads and they do it with their capacity not with Porr or Alpina capacity.
They get the job because of the corruption not their capabilities and that is well known fact.
The money is provided by banks (loans etc), but only big companies have the financial resources to vouch for the work, if a smaller company gets the job they can just take the money, do a bad job and the money is lost, but a big company can be held accountable and the state can get the money back if the work is bad and has to be redone and they don't have to pay it out of their pocket.

As to why they get the jobs, that's a different question, I was just talking about the use of sub-contractors, which is normal in every construction work everywhere around the world.
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Old August 31st, 2010, 06:27 PM   #1295
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State is vouching for it because state is taking loans and not he companies.

Where it normal? Is it normal that in Austria non-Austrian company gets job constructing motorways.
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Old August 31st, 2010, 09:11 PM   #1296
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It shall be. It is called competition and free maket. Your suggestion will be called protectionism. Smaller companies sometimes just do not have enough machinery to do all the job. Sometimes it is possible the contractor to lease a machine to his sub-contractors... This system (with one main and many sub- contractors) works fine in many countries (Slovenia and Croatia, to name a few). It is an all-win situation: the state has guarantees, the bigger comapny gets revenue, the smaller ones - the work they need. (I know, this is ONLY IN CASE everything is done transperantly and with no corruption.) It is way better than no motorway at all.
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Old August 31st, 2010, 09:23 PM   #1297
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Is it called like that? How come that free market works only one way?
The problem is that Serbia has enough capable companies to do the job they donīt need Austrians, the things with Austrians is corruption 100% and that is what pisses me off.
Transparency is not their middle name. Almost all projects that Austrians won was followed by affairs and no transparency.
And the choice is not motorway with them and no motorway, rather motorway with or without them. Serbian tax payers will be paying this motorway.
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Old August 31st, 2010, 09:44 PM   #1298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad_Hafen View Post
Is it called like that? How come that free market works only one way?
The problem is that Serbia has enough capable companies to do the job they donīt need Austrians, the things with Austrians is corruption 100% and that is what pisses me off.
Transparency is not their middle name. Almost all projects that Austrians won was followed by affairs and no transparency.
And the choice is not motorway with them and no motorway, rather motorway with or without them. Serbian tax payers will be paying this motorway.
Well, here, on the Balkans, it may be like that. But this does not mean that the idea to have subcontractors is automatically bad.
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Old August 31st, 2010, 10:36 PM   #1299
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no one said that i am talking about specific case
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Old September 1st, 2010, 01:34 PM   #1300
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Quote:
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State is vouching for it because state is taking loans and not he companies.

Where it normal? Is it normal that in Austria non-Austrian company gets job constructing motorways.
You don't get it... the state can not vouch for the work of a company. When the work is done, and it turns out to be faulty, one has to be held accountable for it. And only big companies can be held accountable for it because only they have the financial oppurtunities to pay the fines and compensation and the fixing of the faults.
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