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Old October 31st, 2010, 10:23 PM   #1501
CrazySerb
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The pylon of Belgrade's new Sava river bridge has reached a new height - ~152 meters or 3/4 of its planned height of 200 meters.

Also, it seems now that the price of the bridge with all of the infrastructure that comes with it (acccess roads, etc) has now broke through the 350 million euro mark, about double of what was originally planned.







Source: Veliki Vracar, Beobuild.
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Old November 1st, 2010, 11:20 PM   #1502
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Orlovaca interchange, Belgrade ring-road:












Source: nenad78, Beobuild.rs


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Old November 1st, 2010, 11:27 PM   #1503
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New Serbia/Montenegro border crossing...

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Spiljani crossing on Serbia, Montenegrin border opened

Spiljani, 26 Oct 2010 – Minister of Finance Diana Dragutinovic officially opened the Spiljani border crossing today between Serbia and Montenegro in which Serbia and the EU have invested around €2.15 million.

Opening the new border crossing, Dragutinovic stressed that its capacity is around one million people and 600,000 vehicles a year.

The Minister underlined that the new border crossing will help to improve the lives of over 5,000 residents in the nearby towns of Tutin and Rozaje who have to cross the border several times a day.

The new facility will be conducting customs control as well, she announced.

Minister without Portfolio Sulejman Ugljanin underscored that citizens living on both sides of the border will benefit the most from the new border crossing, recalling that this is one of the least developed regions in the former Yugoslavia.

Ugljanin emphasised that IPA funds will be used to help the sustainable development of underdeveloped regions in Serbia and Montenegro, which includes citizens living in Tutin and Rozaje.

A representative of the EU delegation to Serbia Jose Antonio Gomez Gomes declared that over the last ten years the EU has set aside around €40 million for integrated border management projects.

He recalled that €24 million was invested in infrastructure and equipment for four major border crossings, ie Horgos, Batrovci, Presevo and Dimitrovgrad.

Up to €1.4 million was set aside for secondary border crossings at nine locations in Serbia, of which sum €130,000 was invested in the Spiljani crossing.

Director of the Customs Administration Predrag Petronijevic and State Secretary of Finance Miodrag Djidic also attended the ceremony.
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Old November 2nd, 2010, 04:05 AM   #1504
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Very nice, a new border post that will become unecessary in the future when the people of Europe welcome Serbia and Montenegro to the EU.
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Old November 2nd, 2010, 04:22 AM   #1505
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well, unfortunately that will not happen in near future
for example Romania & Bulgaria are expected to join Schengen Area next year
meantime the traffic can be substantially faster witn an extra crossing
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Old November 2nd, 2010, 05:46 AM   #1506
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Very nice, a new border post that will become unecessary in the future when the people of Europe welcome Serbia and Montenegro to the EU.
Probably Croatia and Iceland will join together in 2012. The next round is looking like Serbia, Montenegro, Macedonia, Albania, Kosovo, and Bosnia-Herzegovina together sometime between 2015 and 2020. There are a bunch of EU member states (it only takes one) ready to block this until Serbia formally recognizes Kosovo as a state, so it could be after 2020. Even after they all join the EU (and the Schengen Zone with it), implementation of Schengen will probably occur several years after joining the EU. The consensus seems to be that all other potential aspirants (Turkey, Moldova, Ukraine, Belarus) will not be considered until after the Balkan States. Exceptions might be made for Norway or Switzerland, but probably not for Lichtenstein because the prince's powers conflict with EU standards of democracy.

So, implementation of Schengen articles 20 (no passport checks) and 22 (no speed limit reductions) at the border crossings between Serbia and Montenegro might occur about 2018 to 2025.
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Old November 2nd, 2010, 06:12 AM   #1507
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Actually even not all EU countries recognize Kosovo, so i don't see problem here. If Kosovo would like to join- we will have problem...
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Old November 2nd, 2010, 09:43 AM   #1508
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Actually even not all EU countries recognize Kosovo, so i don't see problem here. If Kosovo would like to join- we will have problem...
22 of 27 EU countries recognize Kosovo. Most of those 22 would admit Serbia to the EU only after Serbia recognizes Kosovo. On the other hand, most of the 5 would admit Kosovo (which very clearly wants to join the EU) only after Serbia recognizes Kosovo. Almost all of the 27 would only admit them at the same time in order to ensure that one cannot block the entry of the other, since it takes only one member state to block the entry of a candidate member state. The problems in Cyprus, such as the implementation of Schengen, weigh heavily here on the minds of EU leaders. Admitting only Serbia or Kosovo, without admitting the other, is impossible after the Cyprus experience.

So, the border between Serbia and Montenegro will become an internal Schengen border only some years after Serbia and Kosovo make some progress toward friendlier relations. It could easily take ten years or more for these new border checkpoints to be dismantled.
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Old November 2nd, 2010, 11:11 AM   #1509
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I don't think Kosovo is a very big issue, right now they are demanding that Serbia will arrest Ratko Mladić, especially the Netherlands wants this, though I have the feeling they come up with new names to be arrested every time to delay the process. Though it has to be noted last week all ministers of foreign affairs agreed on the accession of Serbia into the European Union, so that is a step forward.
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Old November 2nd, 2010, 12:25 PM   #1510
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22 of 27 EU countries recognize Kosovo. Most of those 22 would admit Serbia to the EU only after Serbia recognizes Kosovo. On the other hand, most of the 5 would admit Kosovo (which very clearly wants to join the EU) only after Serbia recognizes Kosovo. Almost all of the 27 would only admit them at the same time in order to ensure that one cannot block the entry of the other, since it takes only one member state to block the entry of a candidate member state. The problems in Cyprus, such as the implementation of Schengen, weigh heavily here on the minds of EU leaders. Admitting only Serbia or Kosovo, without admitting the other, is impossible after the Cyprus experience.

So, the border between Serbia and Montenegro will become an internal Schengen border only some years after Serbia and Kosovo make some progress toward friendlier relations. It could easily take ten years or more for these new border checkpoints to be dismantled.
than Serbia will never join EU.
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Old November 2nd, 2010, 01:01 PM   #1511
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than Serbia will never join EU.
"The future lasts a long time." -- Charles de Gaulle

The reason I disagree with you is that the political leadership of Serbia understand very well that they must recognize Kosovo before they can join the EU, yet they continue to rally the populous to the goal of joining the EU.

I think the likely order in which this will play out is that, as a consequence of the ICJ opinion, more UN member states will recognize Kosovo. Once a majority of UN member states recognize Kosovo, Kosovo will be admitted as a member of the UN over the vocal objections of Serbia. After Kosovo is a member of the UN, the message from the Serbian leadership to the people will shift to something like "The best way to protect the rights of Serbs living in Kosovo is EU membership for both Serbia and Kosovo."

There are many steps to joining the EU. The Commission and the Council are in something close to consensus that Serbian recognition of Kosovo can happen late in the process, after admission to the UN, but they want Mladic yesterday.
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Old November 2nd, 2010, 02:46 PM   #1512
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There is no politician that can make such decision. There is no this possibility in Serbian constitution. So it will never happen.
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Old November 2nd, 2010, 04:47 PM   #1513
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I don't think Kosovo is a very big issue, right now they are demanding that Serbia will arrest Ratko Mladić, especially the Netherlands wants this, though I have the feeling they come up with new names to be arrested every time to delay the process. Though it has to be noted last week all ministers of foreign affairs agreed on the accession of Serbia into the European Union, so that is a step forward.
Really what makes you say that ?
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Old November 2nd, 2010, 06:52 PM   #1514
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There is no politician that can make such decision. There is no this possibility in Serbian constitution. So it will never happen.
Constitutions change. The Serbian Constitution has changed many times during my lifetime. Anyway, it's possible to join the Schengen Zone without joining the EU, so I expect the new border checkpoints between Serbia and Montenegro to be gone within 10 or 15 years.
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Old November 3rd, 2010, 02:13 AM   #1515
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there are no politician to change the constitution. It would never be allowed by people.
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Old November 3rd, 2010, 02:41 AM   #1516
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I don't think Kosovo is a very big issue, right now they are demanding that Serbia will arrest Ratko Mladić, especially the Netherlands wants this, though I have the feeling they come up with new names to be arrested every time to delay the process. Though it has to be noted last week all ministers of foreign affairs agreed on the accession of Serbia into the European Union, so that is a step forward.
x2

They will come up with new reasons and demands every time Serbia fullfills the last demand, and they can and will do that forever (just look at Turkey), until Serbia decides to give up on its independence and lets itself be governed by a foreign nation. There are certain countries in the EU that would only accept a beat-down, on-its-knees Serbia into the EU, not a tall-standing and independent one which may not follow someones orders and ideals... it's very simple. And mcarling is pretty realistic.
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Old November 3rd, 2010, 03:53 AM   #1517
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Well having in mind that we have an installed pro-western puppet government everything is possible, even recognizing Kosovo for some very vague promises about an EU entry.
I generally have nothing against the EU but I certainly would not sell out my dignity(i.e. recognizing Kosovo etc.) to enter the Union; there is a red line after all. And as someone stated before, why fulfill their politically motivated demandings, when they'll come up with new ones, every time old ones are fullfilled? There is no logic in doing that.
Croatia may enter in a couple of years maybe but after that there will be no integration for a longer preiod of time. Simply to much unsolved problems in that region; unstable Bosnia&Hercegovina, Kosovo, FYR Macedonia...so the EU isn't getting tired promising an entry option in order to keep us believing, but in reality they have no clue what to do with these states and protectorats so they'll just keep these countries/protectorats under quarantaine until...well who knows...Maybe some kind of privileged partnership as Germany offered to Turkey would be a solution for hte western Balkans?
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Old November 3rd, 2010, 11:07 AM   #1518
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x2

They will come up with new reasons and demands every time Serbia fullfills the last demand, and they can and will do that forever (just look at Turkey), until Serbia decides to give up on its independence and lets itself be governed by a foreign nation. There are certain countries in the EU that would only accept a beat-down, on-its-knees Serbia into the EU, not a tall-standing and independent one which may not follow someones orders and ideals... it's very simple. And mcarling is pretty realistic.
And could you explain me how is it possible that Serbia recognise independence and who can do that?
Constitution doesn´t allow it, you can not change constitution if you do not have 2/3 and in Serbia it will NEVER be able to find 2/3 as you call it "realistic people" to vote for that. And I am sure that there will never be such "brave" person to vote for it. It would mean that those persons would be for the rest of Serbian history memorized as cowards and traitors. And i am sure that thier existence would be dangered.
So neither you nor he is being realistic. That is maybe "good" plan of some nations that do not understand how things work in Serbia.
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Old November 3rd, 2010, 11:22 AM   #1519
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Do you think the politicians didn't see this coming when they drafted the 2006 Constitution? They cleverly wrote two definitions of Serbia. The definition that includes Kosovo is only in the preamble, not in any operative article with binding legal force. The definition in Article 1, which does have binding legal force, does not mention Kosovo. I hope Bad_Hafen doesn't jump off a bridge when the question is decided by the Constitutional Court.

One way or another, it's very likely that these new border checkpoints will be temporary.

Last edited by mcarling; November 3rd, 2010 at 12:19 PM.
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Old November 3rd, 2010, 12:49 PM   #1520
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what we get by full membership in EU ? Free money? there is not such a thing.
Shengen zone is cool, though...

Oh, yes, real autoput discussion...
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