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Old April 11th, 2011, 09:35 AM   #1801
Bad_Hafen
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i meant on those old which are still there.
and about new - i don't like when left and right table on portal don't have the same height. that happens because of double names and too large font.
Yes off course the old one should be changed to the new 2 script tables.
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Old April 11th, 2011, 01:16 PM   #1802
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It is hard to say. The state prefers use of Cyrillic, but in reality Latin script is more used. It is really hard to find Cyrillic script on the streets, the name of cafes, shops, brands etc. are all in Latin.
Cyrillic is more used in education (school books) and in the state affairs like different forms, blanks etc.
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Old April 11th, 2011, 02:33 PM   #1803
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just to add a few words about that little offtopicing about scripts.

I have a personal feel that in recent years, in Serbia, especially after the reviewed constitution voted in 2006, the state is raping us citizens to use cyrilic over latin.

Serbocroatian language (here we'll call it Serbian) use both script bases, Cyrilic and Latin, and they were, are, and will be equal. In case of Serbia, citizens are considered to have basic literacy education (reading and writing) after they accomplished both latin and cyrilic scripts. Both scripts are equal, and one can use cyrilic or latin, and there's no general rule where to use this one or other one. It depends upon a person and it's personal choice, but after everything, it's not "a choice" as you can always use one or another.

For me, personally, it's a matter of my mood or skills gathered since highschool. Simply, taking notes was faster to do in cyrilic, so kind of I still use cyrilic when taking notes or so (rarely nowdays as we're all using computers I guess). My signature is in cyrlic because I managed to find 'a design' that looks nicer than latin variant, during boring high school days, I guess. When I'm filling some forms, I'm doing it in latin, cos I'm used to it. For no real reason. Maybe because I have a letter 'R' in my first name, and it always looked more cool and appealing to write than cyrilic R which is 'P'.

I'm personally not against cyrlic or latin, but some silent forcing of one script against other is simply making me angry a little bit (as I see it connected with nationalism) and recently I'm forcing myself to switch totally into latin only, just for the sake of it.

However, cyrilic is maybe considered a little bit more 'national' against serbian latin which is considered a bit more 'colloquial', so depending on your personal views upon other things, you can use one or another. But in most cases, people don't really care when they have to write. One funny fact is that all of these cheap crappy daily newspapers that promote gossiping and national hatred are printed in serbian latin, while they can strongly promote nationalism and that kind of bullshit, even having awful articles against serbian latin script

When I said that the state is raping us people with cyliric, I meant this constant arise of cyrilic appearing pretty much everywhere. In recent few years, I've noticed that all forms that you can buy in banks/police/whereever are strictly printed in cyrilic, state television started forcing cyrilic titles about everywhere, and it's really hard to see any latin script on a state tv this days. In cases where there used to be bi-scriptal signs, like train stations or such, I can notice slow dominance of only cyrilic signs in recent few years.

Excellent example of forcing cyrilic by the state is actually this situation on motorways and roads. Old signs were written predominantly in latin script, as it beats two things at once, it is 100% 'our script' and it is 'compatible' with some international requirements (helping foreigners at least). Nowdays, signs are getting changed for two-scriptal ones, where we can notice Serbian cyrilic and Serbian latin, which makes them more expensive to produce, more complicated to read, and after all, cyrilic on road signs is totally not needed from practical point, as you can simply use another serbian script, latin one, and everyone is still going to get readable sign.

Last edited by vectom; April 11th, 2011 at 02:41 PM.
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Old April 11th, 2011, 04:41 PM   #1804
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Personally, I'd like to see Serbia go the way of Russia and start enforcing a ban on anything BUT cyrillic.
Or at least be more like Bulgaria, a country that knows how to respect its history and tradition.

Fact of the matter is , latin script was forced on us through various Yugoslavia's where we, the majority, had to conform to the needs of various minorities (Slovenes, Croats, etc).
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Old April 11th, 2011, 04:41 PM   #1805
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strange ... I always thought that latin script is preferred in Serbia ...
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Old April 11th, 2011, 04:48 PM   #1806
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Quote:
Originally Posted by autobahnracer View Post
strange ... I always thought that latin script is preferred in Serbia ...
It is,in the 80´s you could choose in school which one you will use and the most choose latin.As i was doing my military service in 95 i wrote cyrilic cause i can write cyrillic faster and manny of my camerades couldn read that without problems
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Old April 11th, 2011, 05:00 PM   #1807
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First photos from the just opened construction site of Batajnica intersection, part of the Belgrade bypass motorway...















Source: Boca-ica, Beobuild.rs
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Old April 11th, 2011, 06:30 PM   #1808
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazySerb View Post

Fact of the matter is , latin script was forced on us through various Yugoslavia's where we, the majority, had to conform to the needs of various minorities (Slovenes, Croats, etc).
i wouldn't say that it was forced. since you had capital, that was kinda neccessary because there were latin orientated republics in Yugoslavia. if you feel as a pure cyrillic country, you could have done it, as Macedonia did. Slovenians and Croats also learned cyrillic in schools, we had to know to handle with it, although we didn't have anything with it actually. btw i have a feeling that cyrillic is today used in Serbia more than 15 years ago.
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Svaki dan sanjam autobahn...
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Old April 11th, 2011, 06:33 PM   #1809
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When I'm filling some forms, I'm doing it in latin, cos I'm used to it.
Than you are wrong! The rue is that if the form is in Latin you fill it in Latin, if it s Cyrillic you fill it in Cyrillic. It is not a case of opinion, the form printer decided for you.
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Originally Posted by vectom View Post
I'm personally not against cyrlic or latin, but some silent forcing of one script against other is simply making me angry a little bit (as I see it connected with nationalism) and recently I'm forcing myself to switch totally into latin only, just for the sake of it.
Than you have got it wrong. The Cyrillic has nothing to do with nationalism, but the Cyrillic script is more endangered in Serbia and more Serbian than Latin that is why it is protected. It is ignorant to think it has to do with nationalism.
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In recent few years, I've noticed that all forms that you can buy in banks/police/whereever are strictly printed in cyrilic.
That is because in constitution only Cyrillic is the official script of Serbia.
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Originally Posted by vectom View Post
state television started forcing cyrilic titles about everywhere, and it's really hard to see any latin script on a state tv this days.
The state TV in Serbia has always predominately used Cyrillic script. It was like that during YU times as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vectom View Post
Excellent example of forcing cyrilic by the state is actually this situation on motorways and roads. Old signs were written predominantly in latin script, as it beats two things at once, it is 100% 'our script' and it is 'compatible' with some international requirements (helping foreigners at least). Nowdays, signs are getting changed for two-scriptal ones, where we can notice Serbian cyrilic and Serbian latin, which makes them more expensive to produce, more complicated to read, and after all, cyrilic on road signs is totally not needed from practical point, as you can simply use another serbian script, latin one, and everyone is still going to get readable sign.
Serbia before was a part of greater country and it is the first time after almost 100 years independent. So before it use to use the script that majority writes and reads. Now it is independent I dont see the reasons why not use 2 scripts.
And i disagree that the signs are complicate to read the one who reads only Latin wouldnt even try to read Cyrillic it will concentrate only on Latin signs. The same I ignore Greek alphabet when in Greece.
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Originally Posted by autobahnracer View Post
strange ... I always thought that latin script is preferred in Serbia ...
Well the vast majority dont car. And I can say that Latin is predominant and the state is now trying to protect Cyrillic because it is endangered.

example:

The biggest, once state oil company Jugopetrol



The second one also once state Nispetrol



The biggest retailer



the state owned Telecom



The state owned airliners



police cars in Serbia



fire department



ambulance



Serbian clinical centre



etc.

Last edited by Bad_Hafen; April 11th, 2011 at 06:49 PM.
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Old April 11th, 2011, 07:15 PM   #1810
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Is the old lane going to be repaved from Novi Sad to HU border? It looks to be in a decent shape, but just to match it up with the new one.

Last edited by YU-AMC; April 11th, 2011 at 07:21 PM.
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Old April 11th, 2011, 07:22 PM   #1811
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yes it is planned to repave it.
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Old April 11th, 2011, 07:24 PM   #1812
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Fantastic! Hvala!
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Old April 12th, 2011, 11:34 AM   #1813
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for the sake of truth, I have to reply to off-topic issue about scripts again.

Bad_Hafen, no matter that he even isn't from Serbia, isn't objective when replying to my post. Just because forum readers who aren't familiar with the topic would stay confused, I'm going to collectively reply to his sentences upon my first post on this issue.

- if we mention current constitution of republic of Serbia, then it is worth to mention that constitution guarantees absolute freedom in choosing which script one can use, whereever and in whatever occasion. It is absolutely not true that if you get a form printed in cyrilic you should write down in cyrilic only. That is what constitution says.

- based on current constitution and current grammar of Serbia, Serbian cyrilic is official script of the government of Serbia and other government institutions. Serbian latin script is guaranteed to be used equally to the Serbian cyrilic. That is the major difference of the current constitution compared with the previous one, which was stating that both scripts were equal in terms that there was no forcing one to be official against other which is equal. A person can equally use both in all occassions, and that is clearly stated in current constitution.

- during YU times, RTS (Radio Television of Serbia) was prefering cyrilic indeed, but not in this extent like we do see nowdays. That was what I wanted to say. I live in Serbia for the most of my life and I do notice this clearly, especially after changing RTS management in 2004 with right-wing oriented general manager Tijanic.

- cyrilic is heavily used for nationalistic purposes. that is a fact. there's no a single neonazi/fascist movement in Serbia that uses Serbian latin. All pro-national movements, clerofascists, traditionalists, royalists, blabla, are strictly using Serbian cyrilic virtually everywhere, and opposing Serbian Latin for various reasons.

- when I said that new roads signs are getting complicated, I used simple logic. Imagine road sign pointing towards one major city and three villages to the right. There used to be 4 words. Now there are 8. Sign is huge and looks more like a list. It is very simple to understand what I meant.

- Bad_Hafen, your photo examples are heavily biased. Except NIS Jugopetrol, all other examples are not valid. MAXI is a brend of Delta Holding that has it's stores in Serbia, Bulgaria, Macedonia, B&H, Montenegro, Ukraine, Belarus, Albania (correct me if I skipped some more countries). Ambulance and JatAirways are English words. Photos with fire-brigades and police cars are outdated, if you were living in Serbia you could notice that they forcably changed them into Serbian Cyrilic sinec few years ago. Clinical center of Serbia has Serbian Latin written logo, but you could dig out Clinical Center in Nis that has Serbian Cyrilic logo. mt:s is Mobile Telecom of Serbia, branch of Serbian Telecom, and mt:s is a branded logo, dig out their logo of HQ in Belgrade better. Etc etc.

this post is just for the sake of truth, and I'm not going to offtopic onto this anymore or to prove things over internet. cheers to everyone.
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Old April 12th, 2011, 11:59 AM   #1814
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^ Off-topic or not, your post is very interesting. Thank you for making it clear.
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Old April 12th, 2011, 04:08 PM   #1815
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vectom View Post
Bad_Hafen, no matter that he even isn't from Serbia, isn't objective when replying to my post.
why is that I am not objective and you are?
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Originally Posted by vectom View Post
- if we mention current constitution of republic of Serbia, then it is worth to mention that constitution guarantees absolute freedom in choosing which script one can use, whereever and in whatever occasion.
here is constitution , article 10. It says that Cyrillic is official script of Serbia.
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It is absolutely not true that if you get a form printed in cyrilic you should write down in cyrilic only. That is what constitution says.
My God! Off course it is not mentioned in the constitution, but it is something you learn in grammar school. Of course it is illiteracy if the form is in Latin to fill it Cyrillic or other way around
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Originally Posted by vectom View Post
- based on current constitution and current grammar of Serbia, Serbian cyrilic is official script of the government of Serbia and other government institutions. Serbian latin script is guaranteed to be used equally to the Serbian cyrilic. That is the major difference of the current constitution compared with the previous one, which was stating that both scripts were equal in terms that there was no forcing one to be official against other which is equal. A person can equally use both in all occassions, and that is clearly stated in current constitution.
I already posted you the article of the constitution. So you are wrong.

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Originally Posted by vectom View Post
- during YU times, RTS (Radio Television of Serbia) was prefering cyrilic indeed, but not in this extent like we do see nowdays. That was what I wanted to say. I live in Serbia for the most of my life and I do notice this clearly, especially after changing RTS management in 2004 with right-wing oriented general manager Tijanic.
Not true. Again RTB (Radio-Television Belgrade) used almost exclusively Cyrillic.
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Originally Posted by vectom View Post
- cyrilic is heavily used for nationalistic purposes. that is a fact. there's no a single neonazi/fascist movement in Serbia that uses Serbian latin. All pro-national movements, clerofascists, traditionalists, royalists, blabla, are strictly using Serbian cyrilic virtually everywhere, and opposing Serbian Latin for various reasons.
I think thta you have the problem because you connect Cyrillic with nationalism, so you are the same as those pro-national movements, clerofascists, traditionalists, royalists, blabla.
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Originally Posted by vectom View Post
- Bad_Hafen, your photo examples are heavily biased. Except NIS Jugopetrol, all other examples are not valid. MAXI is a brend of Delta Holding that has it's stores in Serbia, Bulgaria, Macedonia, B&H, Montenegro, Ukraine, Belarus, Albania (correct me if I skipped some more countries). Ambulance and JatAirways are English words. Photos with fire-brigades and police cars are outdated, if you were living in Serbia you could notice that they forcably changed them into Serbian Cyrilic sinec few years ago. Clinical center of Serbia has Serbian Latin written logo, but you could dig out Clinical Center in Nis that has Serbian Cyrilic logo. mt:s is Mobile Telecom of Serbia, branch of Serbian Telecom, and mt:s is a branded logo, dig out their logo of HQ in Belgrade better. Etc etc.
Maxi had that logo before it went abroad. And what it has to do with anything.
Take C-market than

or Roda

Pekabeta

I missed any?

Quote:
Ambulance and JatAirways
Jat is serbian (Jugoslovenski aero-transport) and it has always been in Latin. Ambulance is maybe english but Gradski zavod za hitnu medicinsku pomoc isn't


Quote:
Clinical center of Serbia has Serbian Latin written logo, but you could dig out Clinical Center in Nis that has Serbian Cyrilic logo
I didn't dig anything out. So it is relevant that in Nis and the one in Belgrade it isn't?

Quote:
mt:s is Mobile Telecom of Serbia, branch of Serbian Telecom, and mt:s is a branded logo
So?
It is in Latin, that's the point.
And here is Telekom Srbija logo on their building.


And those are state services. If we look at the private sector Cyrillic is almost non-existent.

btw they are now introducing also street name signs in Latin as well, before it was Cyrillic.



Because you are not bias just go around a bit in Belgrade and look around and you will see that Cyrillic in the street is almost non-existent. But you know that so I don't understand your point.

Last edited by Bad_Hafen; April 12th, 2011 at 04:17 PM.
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Old April 12th, 2011, 07:53 PM   #1816
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Two nice shots of the new Sava river bridge...

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Old April 13th, 2011, 03:47 AM   #1817
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Removal/relocation of a transmission line that had been the biggest obstacle to completion of Subotica's 25km motorway bypass, scheduled for October this year, has begun...










Last edited by CrazySerb; April 13th, 2011 at 03:53 AM.
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Old April 13th, 2011, 11:01 AM   #1818
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Will that be a small road or a short stretch of highway that connects e-75 to Kelebija?
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Old April 13th, 2011, 07:37 PM   #1819
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it will be motorway both direction Kelebija and Horgos
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Old April 13th, 2011, 07:50 PM   #1820
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Budapest and the Austrian border are much more near if you drive over Kelebija and not Horgos unfortunately the road is not so good
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