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Old April 13th, 2011, 08:17 PM   #1821
CrazySerb
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Video report from the construction site of Vrsac bypass, one of two sections of the important Corridor 11, a 600km motorway that will eventually connect Romania's Timisoara to Montenegro's port town of Bar, that are currently being worked on.

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Old April 13th, 2011, 09:42 PM   #1822
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To the serbian users:

What does mean 'deonica' and is there any difference between 'deonica' and 'autoput' ?
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Old April 13th, 2011, 09:43 PM   #1823
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Autoput is a motorway,deonica is single part
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Old April 13th, 2011, 10:22 PM   #1824
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Maybe You mean 'single road' ?
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Old April 13th, 2011, 10:27 PM   #1825
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'Deonica' is a section.
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Old April 13th, 2011, 11:06 PM   #1826
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Now it is clear.
Thank You very much !
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Old April 14th, 2011, 02:08 AM   #1827
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Fewer road accidents

Quote:
Belgrade, 13 April 2011 – First Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Interior Ivica Dacic stated last night that the enforcement of the new Law on road safety has helped to reduce the number of severe road accidents and injuries by more than 10%.

At a ceremony where prizes were presented to companies and individuals that have helped develop the insurance industry during the previous year, Dacic said that the death toll in road accidents has been reduced by 19%.

Parallel to the Law on road safety, the Law on obligatory insurance was also enforced, Dacic recalled, noting that only with the implementation of both laws can a strategy for protecting lives of people in the traffic be complete.

These two laws are linked and they protect the ultimate value, and that is human life, Dacic observed.

The Law on obligatory insurance takes care that we do not lose the values we create every day, such as our homes, property and crops, he explained.

Before the new Law on road safety was put into force, there were 64,898 road accidents in one year, while after its enforcement this number dropped by around 17,000.

This data gave a new impetus to the Ministry to keep enforcing this law rigorously and without compromise as this is the best way to protect lives, Dacic concluded.
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Old April 14th, 2011, 09:49 AM   #1828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazySerb View Post
Video report from the construction site of Vrsac bypass, one of two sections of the important Corridor 11, a 600km motorway that will eventually connect Romania's Timisoara to Montenegro's port town of Bar, that are currently being worked on.
Wow!!! Nice... I'm so happy! Now I will go on Belgrade more often. For passing thru Vrsac you can lose about 15 to 30 mins and the road signs are little unclear.
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Old April 14th, 2011, 05:11 PM   #1829
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^

The main span of Beska bridge was connected today:

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Old April 14th, 2011, 10:18 PM   #1830
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazySerb View Post
Video report from the construction site of Vrsac bypass, one of two sections of the important Corridor 11, a 600km motorway that will eventually connect Romania's Timisoara to Montenegro's port town of Bar, that are currently being worked on.

From the report I realize the profile is 1+1 with E.Lane...
Is that correct?


Quote:
Originally Posted by iuli View Post
Wow!!! Nice... I'm so happy! Now I will go on Belgrade more often. For passing thru Vrsac you can lose about 15 to 30 mins and the road signs are little unclear.
+1
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Last edited by MHN; April 14th, 2011 at 10:24 PM.
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Old April 14th, 2011, 10:21 PM   #1831
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazySerb View Post
^

The main span of Beska bridge was connected today:


Congratulations! I think the new Beška bridge is an example of good Serbian engineering.

I think it's going to be a nice motorway from Belgrade to Budapest.
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Old April 14th, 2011, 11:23 PM   #1832
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uppsala View Post

Congratulations! I think the new Beška bridge is an example of good Serbian engineering.

I think it's going to be a nice motorway from Belgrade to Budapest.
True. That's an other alternative to avoid Slo and Cro. I suppose it would be faster route due to a single border crossing. Am I right?
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Old April 15th, 2011, 11:52 AM   #1833
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Originally Posted by YU-AMC View Post
True. That's an other alternative to avoid Slo and Cro. I suppose it would be faster route due to a single border crossing. Am I right?
I personaly always prefer the road through Novi Sad - Budapest - Vienna when going from Bulgaria to Germany or northern France. Through SLO and CRO it's full motorway and the distance is some 80-100 km less, but there are more border crossings and also in winter passing the Alps is slow and sometimes problematic. Furthermore, through Croatia and Slovenia the road tax is also more expensive and in southern Austria there are some tunnels with toll.

Last edited by autobahnracer; April 15th, 2011 at 02:34 PM.
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Old April 15th, 2011, 11:57 AM   #1834
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Excuse my off-opic.

Are there any differences now in spelling between Serbian (written in latin) and Croatian?
More exactly, are there any Serbo-Croatian words spelled differently in Serbia and Croatia?
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Old April 15th, 2011, 01:10 PM   #1835
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielstan View Post
Excuse my off-opic.

Are there any differences now in spelling between Serbian (written in latin) and Croatian?
More exactly, are there any Serbo-Croatian words spelled differently in Serbia and Croatia?
The main difference (the most common, but not as big) is in the pronunciation and writing of the preslavic letter/sound "jat", which is represented by a simbol "ě" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yat ). In standard croatian language, that sound is written as "ije" or "je", while in serbian it is "e". But it's not the question of spelling, but the differences between words in those 2 languages.

For example, the serbian word for beautiful is "lepo", while in croatian it's "lijepo". Milk: serbian "mleko", croatian "mlijeko" etc.

There are some differences in the vocabulary, where the languages have completely different words. There are about 30% different words, only serbian or croatian. For example carrot: in serbian "šargarepa", in croatian "mrkva", road in serbian "put" or "drum" while in croatian "cesta".

Other differences: phonetics, semantics, grammar...

Croatian language has passed intense standardization in the second half of the 18th century (influence of the literature) and during the "illiric period" during the 1830-1840. From that period, we can talk about modern croatian language, and that was the point where the two languages had split up and had their individual developing processes.

For conclusion, serbian and croatian languages are two different languages, which have common origin. They have separate ISO classifications (croatian: UDK 862, hr; serbian: UDK 861, sr), and they are internationally recognized. They are as similar as the norwegian and swedish are, or the english and irish.

quote for facts (but in croatian): http://groups.google.com/group/soc.c...e28f4080a5d9dc

I hope you understand the situation
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Old April 15th, 2011, 02:16 PM   #1836
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puležan View Post

For conclusion, serbian and croatian languages are two different languages, which have common origin. They have separate ISO classifications (croatian: UDK 862, hr; serbian: UDK 861, sr), and they are internationally recognized. They are as similar as the norwegian and swedish are, or the english and irish.

quote for facts (but in croatian): http://groups.google.com/group/soc.c...e28f4080a5d9dc

I hope you understand the situation
english and irish similar?
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Old April 15th, 2011, 02:18 PM   #1837
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@Puležan,
OK, I have an opinion from a Croat. Already is what I suspected.
The same debate is between Romanian / 'Moldovan' or Bulgarian / Macedonian languages/dialects.

For the sake of discussion:
Norwegian and Swedish are mutually inteligible (also with Danish), but Irish (a keltic language) has nothing in common with English.
During comunism the official language of Yugoslavia was Serbo-Croatian, also internationally recognized.

I restate my question:
- for the 70% common Serbian and Croatian words, are there differences in spelling (how you write them)?
I know there are differences in pronounciation and in vocabulary.

Last edited by danielstan; April 15th, 2011 at 02:40 PM.
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Old April 15th, 2011, 03:11 PM   #1838
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielstan View Post
@Puležan,
OK, I have an opinion from a Croat. Already is what I suspected.
The same debate is between Romanian / 'Moldovan' or Bulgarian / Macedonian languages/dialects.

For the sake of discussion:
Norwegian and Swedish are mutually inteligible (also with Danish), but Irish (a keltic language) has nothing in common with English.
During comunism the official language of Yugoslavia was Serbo-Croatian, also internationally recognized.
Ok, english and irish have nothing in common, my mistake

The serbo-croatian, or croato-serbian language was an artificial language, which has never been the official language of the SFRJ (Yugoslavia). As SFRJ was a federation, there were 4 official languages: Slovene, Croatian, Serbian and Macedonian (in BIH and Montenegro croatian and serbian were spoken).
The similarity of croatian and serbian language had made an idea of making a unique language - serbocroatian, but even in their ideas, that language didn't have it's own grammar, vocabulary, phonetics, etc. Instead of that, the people who wanted that language to overrule the existing two, were saying that croatian and serbian are just 2 dialects, so all croatian grammar and vocabulary with serbian grammar and vocabulary were "standard serbocroatian language". Here is the article on croatian wikipedia, which is better that english version, which is trying to present serbocroatian language as a real language:
http://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srpskohrvatski_jezik
(I know it's difficult to translate from croatian because of the cases, but try somehow with google translate)

Quote:
I restate my question:
- for the 70% common Serbian and Croatian words, are there differences in spelling (how you write them)?
I know there are differences in pronounciation and in vocabulary.
No, there are not any differences in most of the words (I would say cca 95%).

Even when written on cyrillic script, each sound has it's own latin letter, so serbian words (on both scripts) are equal to croatian words. Also, croatian words can be written in cyrillic

Example - the city:
serbian cyrillic: гpaд
serbian latin: grad
croatian: grad

- the story:
serbian cyrillic: пpичa
serbian latin: priča
croatian: priča
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Old April 15th, 2011, 03:38 PM   #1839
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Thanks for the answer to my question about spelling (writing).

I learnt Russian in school and I watched Bulgarian and Yugoslavian TVs before 1989, so I understood quite well the Croatian article on wikipedia.
As there are different opinions on wikipedia (EN or HR versions) about Serbo-Croatian, I also find normal that your opinion is different than some Serbs may think.

I stop here my comments because I don't want to enter in a political debate.
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Old April 15th, 2011, 03:43 PM   #1840
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the point is that SerboCroatian-CroatSerbian is a classic poly-centric language, that had during the time more than one area of its development (in all ethno and literal means).

One can find lot of linguistical literature upon this topic, but to assume some things and make it simplier:

70% of common and shared words is not really provable. For example, my origins are from the area where our speech (which is nowdays classified as Serbian) is totally non-understandable by 'standardized Serbian laguage' approach. Percentage of common words highly depends on the area, and SerboCroatian linguistic area has more than a dozen of sub-areas for unique idioms and words/expressions.

Old Slavic 'yat' sound is indeed defining a slight difference in many words, and cuts SerboCroatian language into three major groups, if we count groups by development of old slavic yat. Ekavica with 'e' is spoken in most of Serbia. Ijekavica with 'ije' is spoken in parts of Serbia, biggest part of Bosnia&Hercegovina, biggest part of Montenegro, and biggest part of Croatia. Ikavica with 'i' is spoken in smaller part of Croatia.
It is important to say that old Slavic 'yat' evolved into this three examples does not define ethnic or language singularity. All ethnic Serbs from Bosnia or Croatia are not using ekavica but ijekavica, which doesn't make them speaking Croatian language (as they claim they speak Serbian).

Yet to be more complicated, SerboCroatian language has three major divisions, or call it dialects, which are 'shtokavski', 'kajkavski' and 'chakavski'. It's a bit more complicated story now, but lets conclude that nowdays standard forms of "Serbian" and "Croatian" are based upon 'shtokavski' one, while kajkavski remains non-standard dialect within Croatia, as well as 'chakavski' which is even dying out a bit.

Yet, now come dialects in a real meaning (accents, forming of questions, blahblah). There are about a dozen ones, and actually, they define areas, regions, and probably some standard forms of nowdays languages that come out from the common one. For example, 'standard' "Serbian" language within Serbia is considered to be based upon East-Herzegovinian dialect of Ekavski form of a common language, but mixed up with Vojvodinian-Shumadian variants of the same speech, at the accentuation point. This standardization came out and got accepted after linguistical works of prominent south slavic linguists in 19th century, sometimes refered as Ilirian movement group.

Therefore, there are scripts. In nowdays Croatia, latin script is used, while in places that Serbs form majority, latin and cyrilic are used. Here we are talking about the same scripts, modeled for the same language. There's no difference between Serbian Latin and Croatian Latin, because they are modeled and adjusted for the same language after all. Serbian Cyrilic is absolutely compatible to be used in Croatia, but was never used since its standardization in 19th century, for various reasons (mainly cos Croatia was at that time mainly under Roman Catholicism influence, while in Serbia, orthodox church was kind of prefering cyrilic as its own script).

To answer to few more questions. There are no differences in pronounciation between nowdays standard Croatian and nowdays standard Serbian languages. Not a single one.

Vocabulary has differences, depending on the area. Some general number of different words is hard to tell. The point is that this difference doesn't make a single big difficulty in mutual speech, writing, or such, between anyone who speaks any dialect/language under SerboCroatian area.

Nowdays languages Serbian, Croatian, Bosnian, Montenegrin, etc (more to come), are more or less political inventions to satisfy ethnic & religious pretentions of these minor european nations.

Now I expect a bit of flaming, and ticketing that I'm a Serb so I have this theory, blahblah, so just to tell before that, I lived in both Serbia and Croatia and worked in both countries, and ethnically I'm officially Eskimo (since 2001), but this year I'm gonna choose Jedi ethnicity, so don't ticket me for a serb please, as I'm not.
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