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Old June 22nd, 2007, 01:47 PM   #21
Astralis
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This 2012 pic is freakin awesome
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Old June 22nd, 2007, 02:17 PM   #22
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I cant wait! i love this city more and more each day!

will canary wharfs cluster be bigger than the city???
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Old June 22nd, 2007, 02:34 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunners View Post

will canary wharfs cluster be bigger than the city???
Based on current proposals, Canary Wharf should have more 150m+ skyscrapers. In terms of overall density though, I think the City will remain unbeaten. It already has a plethora of mid-range towers and enormous, bulky groundscrapers - these are surrounded by a sea of 5-10 storey buildings - and my rendering doesn't include the stuff going on around Aldgate.
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Old June 22nd, 2007, 02:43 PM   #24
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wjfox2002 you are a genius mate . Love the Docklands cluster!!

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Old June 22nd, 2007, 02:50 PM   #25
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Let me add my vote of thanks - that's a great panorama, and only 5 years distant!
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Old June 22nd, 2007, 03:16 PM   #26
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Well done but this vision raises expectations to unrealistic levels for all those not familiar with the economics of the property market. Look at the yields for a start.

In the City, only BL has exchanged contracts to build the Leadenhall Building. Heron, Pinnacle, Shard, etc. have not yet concluded transactions to build the schemes. They will re-assess the market next year and take appropriate decisions in due time.

In Canary Wharf and amongst the big developments, I would add RS by 2012 if market conditions permit. North Quay will not start construction before 2015 and completion around 2020 if Crossrail is not further delayed and tenants are secured. Same for Wood Wharf, as you know British Waterways is likely to pull out.
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Old June 22nd, 2007, 03:21 PM   #27
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true, but there are many more residential talls and it is these that create the new focal points on the skyline, surely these are pretty much guaranteed?
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Old June 22nd, 2007, 03:24 PM   #28
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I thought Skanska had signed to build the Heron Tower last year?
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Old June 22nd, 2007, 05:11 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jef View Post
Well done but this vision raises expectations to unrealistic levels for all those not familiar with the economics of the property market. Look at the yields for a start.

In the City, only BL has exchanged contracts to build the Leadenhall Building. Heron, Pinnacle, Shard, etc. have not yet concluded transactions to build the schemes. They will re-assess the market next year and take appropriate decisions in due time.

In Canary Wharf and amongst the big developments, I would add RS by 2012 if market conditions permit. North Quay will not start construction before 2015 and completion around 2020 if Crossrail is not further delayed and tenants are secured. Same for Wood Wharf, as you know British Waterways is likely to pull out.
I guess you could say it's a "best case scenario" rendering. A few schemes will no doubt fall by the wayside.

But I'm pretty sure the main City towers will be built, along with LBT; they've simply come too far now for them to pull out.

Most of the residential towers will almost certainly be built - the demand is enormous, with multi-million pound apartments being sold out everywhere. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if a whole series of residential/hotel skyscrapers are proposed over the next few years. As I've said before, I think Colombus Tower will be resurrected at some point.

Wood Wharf will surely go ahead. It represents a huge opportunity for the area and forms a key part of Canary Wharf's growth. The Docklands are booming like never before and there's little sign of it slowing down.
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Old June 22nd, 2007, 05:33 PM   #30
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Good work Will - that render is actually one of the few I have seen where 20 FCS doesn't look horrendously out of place.
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Old June 22nd, 2007, 05:49 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarJoLe View Post
This is excellent and proves that London is large enough to sustain several impressive clusters, whether they be high density such as the City or Canary Wharf, or smaller 'village' clusters such as Vauxhall and the South Bank.

There is also a distinct difference between each of the clusters, the City being more iconic buildings, Canary Wharf being an American box style cluster, and Vauxhall being tall soaring slim residential. I'd like to see this difference exploited further to keep each cluster separate and instantly recognisable.
I think this is the way forward for London, but would like to see more clusters

Quote:
Originally Posted by wjfox2002 View Post
Based on current proposals, Canary Wharf should have more 150m+ skyscrapers. In terms of overall density though, I think the City will remain unbeaten. It already has a plethora of mid-range towers and enormous, bulky groundscrapers - these are surrounded by a sea of 5-10 storey buildings - and my rendering doesn't include the stuff going on around Aldgate.
Agreed. The City has more density, with more iconic buildings (just the way it should be) Canary Wharf should get the medal for being taller of the two.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wjfox2002 View Post
I guess you could say it's a "best case scenario" rendering. A few schemes will no doubt fall by the wayside.
But I'm pretty sure the main City towers will be built, along with LBT; they've simply come too far now for them to pull out.
Most of the residential towers will almost certainly be built - the demand is enormous, with multi-million pound apartments being sold out everywhere. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if a whole series of residential/hotel skyscrapers are proposed over the next few years. As I've said before, I think Colombus Tower will be resurrected at some point.
Wood Wharf will surely go ahead. It represents a huge opportunity for the area and forms a key part of Canary Wharf's growth. The Docklands are booming like never before and there's little sign of it slowing down.
When Land runs out, the only way to go is up, many smaller 5-15 storey buildings will be expanded when this fact is taken in.

I think many of the City and the Isle of Dogs building will be constructed, even if they are scaled down a little, the Isle of Dogs will become the new office centre but even then i reckon there will be more mixed developments as with LBT with combination retail/office space on lower floors, hotels at mid level and residential towards the top, especially if the City salaries continue to boom.

I am uncertain about the developments in Vauxhall, if purely residential then i believe they will succeed, even if height reductions are imposed, but don't feel office building would work in this area.

I feel more could be done about the 'West End cluster' eg Doon Street,Castle House and London Park hotel to give this area of London more of an impact. I couldn't see the Centrepoint Tower on the render but more should be done around this area, it's a bit of a no-mans land.

But this is a fantastic view of what London could be in a few years, as stated before London could have many famous skylines.
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Old June 22nd, 2007, 06:34 PM   #32
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The issue is not that much related to expected future demand, instead to supply-side and risk adjusted measures of returns between alternative assets classes. The residential/hotel market will suffer in a environment of rising interest rates and building costs and falling market values combined with historically low yields. Keep also in mind proposed dwellings cannot be used as collateral to secure bank loans.
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Old June 22nd, 2007, 07:00 PM   #33
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Brilliant, absolutely brilliant!
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Old June 22nd, 2007, 07:58 PM   #34
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Wow...I'm away for a few days and I come back to find this!! Great rendering.

I take your point about it being a 'best case scenario' render. As Jef said, a far amount of the towers shown in the picture won't be built by 2012, some not even by 2015, and maybe some not at all.

Out of the biggies: Bish, Heron, Leadenhall, LBT, RS, St George's Wharf are all pretty much certain to be there by 2012, and obviously towers like PP, Broadgate, a few of the midrises and the smaller projects at CW like Arrowhead Quay and Marshwall will be up by then.

HQ West, North Quay, the Vauxhall towers, Wood Wharf, 100 Bishopsate and a few others are doubtful for being up before 2015 I'd say...

But nevertheless, there's no point doing a half-hearted render with lots of towers missing, it's best that all the projects -under construction, approved and proposed- are featured, if only to give an idea of their location, their heights and their effect on the London skyline.

Good stuff Foxy, appreciate your time and effort!

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Old June 22nd, 2007, 08:22 PM   #35
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thats very impressive. Both the pano and londons future. Leaves everything else in britain in the shade. development down there really is going at an alarming speed.
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Old June 22nd, 2007, 08:34 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helium View Post
Sort of a mix between being clustered but scattered.

also: London looks quite small...
Correct me if im wrong people! But although population is not as big, isnt London actually bigger than New York in land size?

Great rendering wjfox - send it to EH and they will have a heart attack!
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Old June 23rd, 2007, 04:13 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helium View Post
Sort of a mix between being clustered but scattered.

also: London looks quite small...
You creep, London looks small, eh? Is that all you can contribute... Yeah sure, maybe its small if your from NYC, or some Asian megacity, but London Ain't small -- and most of the real city is actually low rise, so your not really seeing the entire city in that photo, its deceptive.

Also, to JEF -- Your sophisiticated property talk is very interesting and all, but a tad too depressing for my liking - realism is boring and nobody ever made it big being realistic in this world. We don't care if some projects are cancelled in the future, because there will always be new projects that come along to replace them. You seem extremely pessamistic about the future - you remind me of Eor from winnie the poo. Sorry, but you do!!
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Old June 23rd, 2007, 04:21 AM   #38
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BTW, London's skyline won't rank up there with real skyscraper cities like NYC, etc for ages, but it will have a decent skyline in that shot -- but nothing that would classify it as a real SKYSCRAPER CITY -- it has nothing over 310m there. You can't even compare that to Kuala Lumpur, Taipei, Shanghai, etc... Sorry, London's great, but its not a true skyscrapercity yet -- i'd say it would need about 2x the ammount of towers to be considered for that title. Not that it isn't a much better city than many others wilth taller towers. I think it will take a new generation of leaders for tall towers to lose their stigma in the UK. Only then will you see real supertalls manifest. I would say that shot needs a couple of 400m'ers and 3 or 4 300m to really look stunning in the department.

Good work though mate!! Impressive, I don't know how to do that.
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Old June 23rd, 2007, 04:32 AM   #39
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London is bigger than NYC in terms of area. London - 609 sq mi (1,577.3 kmē) NYC 468.9 sq mi (1,214.4 kmē).
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Old June 23rd, 2007, 10:19 AM   #40
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great work there Will - truely spectacular.

jef is right, it is unrealistic to imagine that we'll get everything on this image. Its too hard to predict, but even 2/3rd of the proposals there would provide a superb skyline and keep us all interested for the next 5 years.
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