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Old June 28th, 2007, 09:04 AM   #21
Yardmaster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tcmetro View Post
Very Cool, wonder how much money you guys coulld get in royalties from Marvel (correct me if i'm wrong, i'm not good with comics)

I also see a very 'original' name of Reservoir, what's the reasoning behind that?
Reservoir's at the end of a water supply line from Yan Yean Reservoir: there are some "service reservoirs" there.

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Originally Posted by Tcmetro View Post
Melbourne seems to have a very good tram/train network, don't know if I can say the same for the buses.
The bus system has generally been organized as a feeder and cross-suburban system. There are few areas that rely on buses as their principle means of transport to the CBD: most notably the eastern Doncaster corridor, where a railway line is missing, and the airport! Some of the routes wander around a bit ... I'm glad I don't have to use them.

Feeder services along part of the Ringwood line:



From the Metlink Website : interconnections in the inner western suburbs. Two buses (404 & 472) & a tram (82) to choose from to get from Footscray to Moonee Ponds, but it's still quicker to take the train ..


Last edited by Yardmaster; June 28th, 2007 at 09:34 AM.
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Old June 29th, 2007, 03:48 PM   #22
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How does the Melbourne Suburban system interact with the Victoria rail system?
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Old June 29th, 2007, 04:09 PM   #23
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How does the Melbourne Suburban system interact with the Victoria rail system?
Not very well! The urban network shares track with both the intercity commuter network and the freight network, mostly to the north and west. Therefore they all have to timetable around each other, and a delay in one knocks on to the others.

For example and touched on before by invincible, this section of rail yard adjacent to Southern Cross Station has eight (sixteen if you include the city loop tunnels) of the urban lines running through it as well as six inter city lines. Then you have to factor in rail freight, quite heavy in this area as it's within close proximity to the docks, and inter state commuter services as well!
image hosted on flickr


In fact you can see a section of the inter city fleet stabled at the top of that photo. It's a miracle that anything gets anywhere at all if you ask me!

To the east it's not so bad, with only one inter city line passing through, still a fair amount of freight though. Here's what happens to some of the urban trains during off peak. Having a sleep at the Camberwell rail yards:
image hosted on flickr


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Old June 29th, 2007, 04:21 PM   #24
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Great.
What the ridership this system ?
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Old June 29th, 2007, 04:25 PM   #25
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Thank you. I have often wondered why the line to Geelong was not integrated into the City system?
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Old June 29th, 2007, 05:06 PM   #26
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Do you mean fare integration TrainmanDave? With the 'myki' smartcard coming out later this year, all govt-tendered services within Victoria as well as the premium Skybus route will have an integrated system. Right now, fares are some-what integrated in terms of regional passengers can gain now use Melbourne transport for free, and if you bought your fare from an attended station ('premium station') you can get a ticket which covers the Melbourne network, V/Line train travel and the regional bus network at your destination. It's messy, and requires planning just like the 'Metcard', but once 'myki' comes out, it will be hassle free.

Only barrier then is to see whether services that operate over the borders into interstate would accept 'myki', and whether there will be future interoperability standards for other states.

As for the actual electrification of the Geelong line, who know? Maybe it will be done in the future but current diesel V/line services are quite frequent. There has been talk of extending Werribee services to Geelong or having a special batch of rollingstock designed for interurban. The thing is with Melbourne is that electrification is usually associated with surburban rollingstock and track control, etc is transferred to Connex (the suburban operator). I can't recall a case where electrification occurred and V/Line electric rollingstock was used for passenger services.
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Old June 29th, 2007, 05:27 PM   #27
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The other V-Line services seem to be longer and could be extended further from the city over time, however the Geelong line is quite short and it seemed to me that it could integrated with the suburban service with sacrifice of futre opportunities.

Two more questions
1. Are all the suburban trains electric?
2. Are there V-line services towards Shepparton or Albury?
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Old June 29th, 2007, 05:46 PM   #28
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V/Line services are either interuban or intercity. Geelong falls under their short-haul interurban category.

All surburban trains are EMUs, except for surburban services that have rollingstock leased from V/Line (ie Stony Point) or V/Line services that accept Metcard (ie Sunbury, Melton).

There are V/Line services to Shepp and Albury (train services). There has been talk of regauging some rollingstock on the Albury line for potential BG to SG conversion. Rumours are that V/Line wants to operate to Wagga, but it is a rumour.

Remember V/Line is not just trains, they have an extensive coach service as well. Regional city buses are not V/Line services but accept V/Line tickets providing the ticket states which city you have free access to (ie. Melbourne to Geelong ticket would mean u have Z1/2, and GTS codes on the ticket as well as the Melb-Geelong train fare).

Edit:
As for extension of Werribee services to Geelong, the voting public would have a large backlash at the government because:
-All Werribee services would extend to Geelong either stoppping all stations (which would negate the 'Regional Fast Rail [160km/h fast :P])
-or all Werribee services would need to be re-orientated to be a two tier system which does not exist
-lack of V/Line comfortable seating for Geelong passengers, and loss of First Class for Intercity trains that do service Geelong
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Last edited by cal_t; June 29th, 2007 at 05:49 PM. Reason: forgot to add why geelong is not going to be part of melb
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Old June 29th, 2007, 05:56 PM   #29
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Thanks for all those explanations cal_t. I'm but a novice at this gunzel biz!
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Old June 29th, 2007, 06:43 PM   #30
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Anytime mate.
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Old June 29th, 2007, 07:04 PM   #31
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Old June 30th, 2007, 11:03 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cal_t View Post
I can't recall a case where electrification occurred and V/Line electric rollingstock was used for passenger services.
V/Line (or it's predecessor, the VR) used to run electrically hauled mainline trains as far as Traralgon, 160 km from Melbourne, but the overheads beyond Warragul (100 km) were pulled up in the early nineties.

Extra-metropolitian rail services in Victoria daily currently amount to:
  • Geelong: 28 (3 through to Warnambool)
  • Ballarat: 17 (3 through to Ararat, an additional 8 stop short at Bacchus Marsh)
  • Bendigo: 19 (2 through to Swan Hill, 1 to Echuca)
    (an additional 7 terminate at Sunbury, 2 at Kyneton,)
  • Seymour: 19 (3 through to Shepparton, 3 to Albury)
  • Traralgon 17 (3 through to Bairnsdale)

There are also 2 Countrylink trains a day to Sydney, 3 Great Southern trains a week to Adelaide.

Last edited by Yardmaster; July 2nd, 2007 at 07:38 PM.
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Old June 30th, 2007, 11:08 AM   #33
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Yes Warragul onwards but that was more for freight. I guess I meant more passenger orientated services.
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Old June 30th, 2007, 11:23 AM   #34
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VR definitely ran passenger trains hauled by "L Class locos" as far as Traralgon, although the impetus for the electrification was the coal traffic and anticipated industrial development in the Latrobe Valley. I travelled on such a train as a primary school kid- with half of the rest of the school- in the 1950's, to gape at the power stations, the briquette factory, and the open cut.

The L Class locos were apparently not very successful (axle loading problems), and disappeared from the line long before the overhead wiring.
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Old June 30th, 2007, 05:42 PM   #35
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Quote:
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Not very well! The urban network shares track with both the intercity commuter network and the freight network, mostly to the north and west. Therefore they all have to timetable around each other, and a delay in one knocks on to the others.
I'd say that's a case of the suburban and regional networks being too closely integrated!

This also causes massive delays for the roads, especially the bus network. My home station is next to a level crossing, which is next to a freight siding. Waiting for a loaded freight train to accelerate from a standing start takes an incredibly long time and holds up trains behind as well.

There is some sort of integration though. Major suburban stations have country trains stopping, but only to pick up passengers going away from the city or to drop off passengers heading towards the city (to prevent suburban passengers from using a country train).

Quote:
For example and touched on before by invincible, this section of rail yard adjacent to Southern Cross Station has eight (sixteen if you include the city loop tunnels) of the urban lines running through it as well as six inter city lines. Then you have to factor in rail freight, quite heavy in this area as it's within close proximity to the docks, and inter state commuter services as well!
Actually, the lines would have split already where our photos were taken and there would only be a small amount of freight - just whatever heads to the eastern side of the state network. And fortunately, a few goods lines do exist, it's just really a couple of bottlenecks that are the issue.

Quote:
To the east it's not so bad, with only one inter city line passing through, still a fair amount of freight though.
To be fair, there's very little freight going through the east nowadays. I live close enough to the line to be able to hear freight trains (and loco hauled passenger trains) passing and you might get one during the day between the peaks and a couple at night.


Oh, and just in on my RSS aggregator: The Connex chairmain said that they wish to apply to extend their current contract to 2011, and then seek an additional contract to run the network until 2018. Yarra Trams also wants to stay in for the long term.

Last edited by invincible; June 30th, 2007 at 05:48 PM.
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Old July 1st, 2007, 04:59 AM   #36
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Great summarys guys! Do you think the systems should be completely seperated?
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Old July 1st, 2007, 06:11 AM   #37
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In my dreams, yes I'd love for it to be seperated, V/Line gets new electrified rollingstock (providing the lines are electrified), and for those lines which don't have space to be tri or quad tracked, build it on top!
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Old July 2nd, 2007, 07:31 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minato ku View Post
Great.
What the ridership this system ?
That's a good question, but hard to answer. Melbourne's public transportation has an intergrated ticketing system so a single ticket can get you onto buses, trams and trains. However you do have to validate your ticket at the beginning of each trip so they should have a number. Does anybody know?
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Old July 2nd, 2007, 10:42 AM   #39
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Since they claim patronage has risen by 10 % in each of the last two years, Connex must have some figures ...

From The Education Age , 26 th February 2007

Connex's figures show passengers made 157 million trips on Melbourne trains last year. That figure is expected to increase with the abolition of zone 3 and there are concerns about the system's ability to cope with the extra demand.


I wouldn't be surprised if what is being measured is the no. of passengers passing through the barriers at the inner city stations: it's wouldn't be difficult to take a free trip between unmanned stations (but costly if you get caught).

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Old July 2nd, 2007, 11:02 AM   #40
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Quote:
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Great summarys guys! Do you think the systems should be completely seperated?
The only place there's much hope of this is where the V/Line traffic is substantial: as I've posted elsewhere, over 100 V/Line services run through Footscray during the four peak hours 7-9 am and 4-6 pm. (counting both directions). This accounts for about half the traffic, and constricts the availablility of track capacity, resulting in too few local services: and overcrowded trains.

Here there's a case for express and local tracks: but indications are it'll be the decade after next before we get it.

Overall, the Melbourne system will do far better out of additional express tracks (notably Footscray-Sunshine & Caufield-Dandenong) shared by express suburban trains than trying to implement a very expensive independent regional network through the suburbs.

Last edited by Yardmaster; July 2nd, 2007 at 07:34 PM. Reason: "two" to "too"
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