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Old February 27th, 2008, 10:55 PM   #161
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These are not really of Melbourne's suburban train system but instead show the platforms at Southern Cross Station for the interurban and interstate trains. The suburban platforms are just out of picture to the left.

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Old February 27th, 2008, 11:16 PM   #162
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About how far from the city center do you have to get before you hit your first at-grade crossing?

I don't need an exhaustive list, but something general would be appreciated.
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Old February 28th, 2008, 12:40 AM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanfan89 View Post
I remember the vending machines for the London Underground had a separate button for each station. It might have changed now that everyone uses Oyster.
Yes those daft machines have been phased out in favour of touch-screen technology.

I have a question about that skew bridge across the Yarra just downstream of Flinders Street: where did it go? Was it a railway to the docks, or passenger? Is there much closed rail infrastructure in Melbourne? Any maps?
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Old February 28th, 2008, 07:02 AM   #164
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Quote:
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About how far from the city center do you have to get before you hit your first at-grade crossing?

I don't need an exhaustive list, but something general would be appreciated.
Oo that's a hard one. Excluding any service roads in railyards and such the closest is probably... Macauly Rd to the north west of the CBD? It's about 2 kms from the CBD on the Upfield line.

On the Hurtsbridge/Epping line there's one just before Clifton Hill Station, Ramsden St I think. Probs about 4 kms from the CBD.

On my line - the Lilydale line - the closest rail-road crossing is Union Rd, about 15 kms out from the CBD. The Glen Waverly line that branches off the Lilydale has a crossing (one of many) about 4 kms from the CBD.
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Old February 28th, 2008, 07:21 AM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
Yes those daft machines have been phased out in favour of touch-screen technology.

I have a question about that skew bridge across the Yarra just downstream of Flinders Street: where did it go? Was it a railway to the docks, or passenger? Is there much closed rail infrastructure in Melbourne? Any maps?
That's the Sandridge railbridge; now converted into a footbridge. It carried the Sandridge/Port Melbourne railway line - the first railway in Australia. It's main purpose was to service the passengers arriving/departing from Station Pier.
The line was closed in 1987 and the majority converted to light rail and serviced by tram route 109.

Here's a picture of the converted bridge by Invincible from wikipedia:



There has been quite a lot of suburban rail infrastructure closed in Melbourne. There used to be an inner circle line that ran through the eastern and northern suburbs. It would be quite handy today but was a bit excessive for its time. Here's a map showing what the previous government was proposing for Melbourne's rail system:



This was not implemented thank god! These two show some of the old lines that have been closed:





Please note that not all those lines are gone, and that the majority that have did not have the passenger numbers to justify their continuation.
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Old February 28th, 2008, 07:46 AM   #166
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Gappa, you should post those station photos in the station photos thread on the aussie transportation forum. Thank god the govt didn't go ahead and implement those plans for the closures.
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Old February 29th, 2008, 09:37 AM   #167
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Quote:
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That's a fairly respectable figure.

What absolutely amazes me is that Melbourne's trains are filled almost to capacity yet a city like Hannover which has a Stadtbahn system (and a population of 522,944) manages to transport 115 million on a network of 12 lines and not suffer undue overcrowding. They both run at a similar frequency (general rule of every 10 minutes).

Is there not much off-peak travel in Melbourne compared to peak to result in slightly skewed statistics with most of those passenger trips occuring at certain times of the day?
Australians are extremely fond of private car travel, which makes any comparison with Europe unrealistic.

However, on the lines that I travel on (Sydenham & Werribee mostly) the trains typically are pretty much full to capacity even off-peak. I'd guess that typically about 100 people get of each off-peak train, and they come every ten minutes. Some possible reasons:
  • I live on the "poorer" side of the city: so there's less cars.
  • there is a large shopping centre (and market) next to my local station: people even commute from out in the country to shop here
  • there is a university & "polytechnic" (known here as a TAFE college) within walking distance of the station
  • since it's only 8-10 minutes by train into the city, it'd probably take as long as that to find a parking spot: or to get through the traffic lights.

Great photo of the Sandridge Bridge, Gappa ...
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Old February 29th, 2008, 10:48 AM   #168
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Great photo of the Sandridge Bridge, Gappa ...
That's not my photo but instead that of Invincible. Here's the link to it on wikipedia. You're right in saying that it's a great pic.
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Old March 4th, 2008, 09:22 PM   #169
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Some pictures of Melbourne's Rail System, Tuesday 4th March 2008 (between 2:30 & 4:30 pm ):

Trains arriving & departing Flinders St. Station: at the western end:



Flinders Street Station (known to some here by my avatar):



Viaduct ("El!") between Flinders St. & Southern Cross: 6 tracks. Provision for 2 more ...



Southern Cross: Full House ...



And it is a "Terminal" Station ...



The view in the opposite direction:




North Melbourne: next up the line:



This is a real bottle-neck: note the suburban train waiting to advance behind the right-most of the two regional trains in the foreground (we drive on the left!):



Here, certain services sometimes switch lines, and savvy commuters hang around in front of these screens then rush to the platform advised ( actually I took about 10 photos while changing platforms & trains within four minutes, and everything ran to time).



Solution: build a new station, with escalators rather than ramps, and lots of concrete: (the story is a bit too complex for global consumption in a posting like this) ...



If I'd been quick enough I would have a photo here of the station I got off at as well ... but there you go.
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Old March 5th, 2008, 04:33 AM   #170
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stunning aerials pics!
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Old March 5th, 2008, 08:42 AM   #171
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Basically the short version of the story is that North Melbourne station is changing to become a better transfer station. The existing station ramps are not DDA compliant. More services are going to be direct services without servicing city underground tunnelled stations, so more people are going to be transferring from direct and loop services and vice versa. Coupled with an express bus service to the Lygon St/Melbourne University districts that now has started shuttling people from North Melbourne station, capacity will outstrip existing capabilities of the current station in the current layout. Hence a new concourse was designed with more stairs/lifts at the new end to help with the interchange.
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Old March 6th, 2008, 06:51 AM   #172
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Quote:
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stunning aerials pics!
They're from the "skydeck" on level 88 of eureka tower, just across the river ...
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Old March 6th, 2008, 12:38 PM   #173
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Melbourne's TS makes me feel like the ride of Metro North or NJ Transit in NY Metro area.
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Old April 2nd, 2008, 09:39 AM   #174
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http://www.theage.com.au/news/nation...e#contentSwap1

Transport supremo's mega-tunnel plan
Clay Lucas, Transport Reporter
April 2, 2008 - 12:50PM

Sir Rod Eddington's blueprint for Melbourne's transport needs has been welcomed by the nation's peak infrastructure body and the Master Builders' Association.

Infrastructure Partnerships Australia says the Eddington report spells out the necessity for bold investment to fix overcrowding on trains, relieve road congestion and remove heavy vehicle freight from suburban streets.

The Master Builders called for a quick response from the Brumby Government to address Melbourne's outer suburban infrastructure needs.

The centrepieces of Sir Rod's $18 billion plan are two new mega tunnels under inner Melbourne - an 18-kilometre road tunnel from Sunshine to Clifton Hill, and a 17-kilometre rail tunnel from Footscray to Caulfield.

The tunnels must be built at a cost of $20 billion, the transport supremo has told the Brumby Government.

"Doing nothing is not an option," Sir Rod wrote in his Investing in Transport report, handed to Premier John Brumby this morning.

Sir Rod's $5 million study, commissioned by the State Government in 2006 to tackle Melbourne's crumbling public transport system and congested roads network, gives a damning assessment of the city's future if current Government funding priorities are maintained.

His report found that:

- a new major freeway must be built through central Melbourne, to reduce the overload of commuters and freight relying on the choked West Gate bridge

- Melbourne's train network will fail, with overcrowding worsening and huge drops in reliability, unless massive funding is pumped into the system

- Melbourne's greenhouse gas emissions will continue to soar unless public transport is improved, the city becomes much denser and cars are made less polluting

- the city's west will be "shut out" unless the current inadequate transport infrastructure is improved

- the cost to business of shifting goods around the city will soar unless urgent attention is given to freight.

Sir Rod has called for construction of a road tunnel starting in the west, via one of two yet-to-be-selected routes, and finishing in Clifton Hill at the Eastern Freeway.

The road would have no exit points to the CBD, potentially making it a less palatable project to fund as a public-private partnership.

Sir Rod's proposal for a new 17-kilometre rail tunnel would run from Footscray to Caulfield, with new stops at Parkville, the city, along St Kilda Road, and finishing in Caulfield.

Melbourne needed a new "metro" style rail system if it was to continue growing at its current rate, he wrote.

"Melbourne's rail network has reached the point where it is experiencing the first 'growing pains' associated with moving from a suburban rail network to the 'metro style' system enjoyed by large European cities," Sir Rod wrote.

"Melbourne must take the bold first step towards a modern rail 'metro' by building a new cross-city rail tunnel."

The need for the tunnel was justified by 160,000 extra rail passengers flooding onto the network since 2002.

More than half of Melbourne's peak-hour trains into the city breached overcrowding limits last year, according to Sir Rod's study.

Among Sir Rod's report's 20 key recommendations was also a push for construction of a new rail connection to link the Werribee line to Sunshine.

The new line - dubbed "the Tarneit link" - would improve the frequency and reliability of services from Werribee, Geelong, Ballarat and Bendigo, Sir Rod believes.

He also wants to see electrification of the rail network to Sunbury, to boost services on the Sydenham line.

A new truck link would also be built off the West Gate on to Hyde Street under Sir Rod's plan, to remove the thousands of freight vehicles that use local streets in the inner west each day.

Trucks would then be banned from local streets in the area, and arterial roads improved so that freight was forced to bypass residential areas.

And trams and buses must be given priorities on major routes.

But advocates of a rail line to Doncaster will be bitterly disappointed by Sir Rod's study, which does not recommend new train services to the east.

Instead, it recommends that a new major bus interchange be built at Victoria Park in Abbotsford to accommodate upgraded bus services along the Eastern Freeway.

The report provides a stinging assessment for Roads Minister Tim Pallas of the Government's failure to meet its long-stated goal of moving 30% of freight onto rail (currently around 16% of freight is moved by rail).

Sir Rod's timeline for rolling out the project sees the new truck off-ramp on the West Gate to the Port of Melbourne the first to being, followed by the western end of the rail tunnel. The road tunnel from the west would begin next.

The State Government is expected to take months to respond to the report, with a formal Government recommendation not due out until at least October.

Maribyrnong Truck Action Group spokesman Peter Knight said the group was excited about the report's emphasis on solving issues with truck traffic in the inner west.

"Basically Sir Rod has recommended the things that we've been calling for since the inception of our group,'' Mr Knight said.

"In particular, the off-ramp from the West Gate Bridge and ... the Sunshine link down to the West Gate Freeway and the bans on trucks using residential streets in Yarraville and the inner west.''

The group hoped the plan would be commenced soon, he said.

The president of the Public Transport Users Association, Daniel Bowen, said he was disappointed but not surprised by the report's recommendations.

He said Melbourne did not need a rail tunnel and the billions of dollars it would cost to build one would be better spent on extra train services using existing infrastructure.

Mr Bowen said Melbourne's rail network was inefficiently run but, with investment in upgrades and track duplication, could carry 50% more train services.

with Matthew Burgess, Marika Dobbin, AAP
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Old April 4th, 2008, 10:49 AM   #175
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Metro rail sounds good to me, what city do you think will get metro first, Sydney or Melbourne?
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Old April 5th, 2008, 11:33 PM   #176
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Most likely Sydney as their recently announced metro plans have already been approved.

What I'm curoius about is why, with one of the most extensive tram and ligt rail networks in the world, Melbourne continues tyo have these traffic problems. Could this mean that our arguments in favor of fixed guideway transit as a solution to traffic and polution isn't all its cracked up to be? Here in the States, large cities are rejecting heavy metros and putting in tramways and light rail as fast as they can, Yet Melbourne hs one of the largest of these and is still suffering. Why?
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Old April 6th, 2008, 12:51 AM   #177
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Most likely Sydney as their recently announced metro plans have already been approved.

What I'm curoius about is why, with one of the most extensive tram and ligt rail networks in the world, Melbourne continues tyo have these traffic problems. Could this mean that our arguments in favor of fixed guideway transit as a solution to traffic and polution isn't all its cracked up to be? Here in the States, large cities are rejecting heavy metros and putting in tramways and light rail as fast as they can, Yet Melbourne hs one of the largest of these and is still suffering. Why?
I can venture an answer here. Unlike other "light rail" networks around the world, most of Melbourne's tram network isn't segregated from traffic and thus has a very low speed on average. This makes them appear to the outsider as "slow and lumbering" (those being two words that have been used to describe Melbourne's trams). My Mother and sister loved the trams, but agreed they were a little on the slow side, but still preferred them to travelling by bus that's for sure.

Actual "light rail" networks around the world such as the Stadtbahn systems in KŲln, Stuttgart and Hannover are well patronised and generally run on their own ROW with underground segments in the city too. This helps to facilitate higher speeds.
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Old April 6th, 2008, 10:05 AM   #178
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With the trams, you have to keep in mind that most of the routes have been around for most of the last century, way before motor cars were common. Newer routes and extensions are typically at least partially separated from traffic and have priority at lights, but there are too many "high streets" where shop owners demand a lane of parking on each side of a four lane road, leaving only one lane in each direction for the trams and all traffic.

CBD streets are a bit wider but then there's the issue of track capacity - Swanston St has an average tram frequency of one tram every minute and with one stop every block, that causes a lot of traffic on a road which isn't even open to regular traffic most of the day.

There was a proposal to put the trams underground which would have helped a lot in the 70s or 80s but it was rejected because people would rather their trams be visible on the street than doing a better job at moving people underground.
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Old April 6th, 2008, 08:04 PM   #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwdwone View Post
Most likely Sydney as their recently announced metro plans have already been approved.

What I'm curoius about is why, with one of the most extensive tram and ligt rail networks in the world, Melbourne continues tyo have these traffic problems. Could this mean that our arguments in favor of fixed guideway transit as a solution to traffic and polution isn't all its cracked up to be? Here in the States, large cities are rejecting heavy metros and putting in tramways and light rail as fast as they can, Yet Melbourne hs one of the largest of these and is still suffering. Why?
Domain Interchange sees 1400 trams per day ... think about that.
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Old June 2nd, 2008, 03:03 PM   #180
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Some more photos of Melbourne's metropolitan train system: 2nd June 2008

Eastern & south-eastern approaches to the city centre: on the left is the iconic "MCG" (Melbourne Cricket Ground) which is used for football in the winter:



This area was formerly the notorious "Jolimont Yard", which comprised about 40 stabling sidings, and since it was right under the windows of the offices of the city's most notable tabloids, it provoked much ire.

The stabling sidings have gone (and so hve the tabloids), but there is still a lot of railway track here.

A view in the opposite direction: towards the city. The tracks run under "Federation Square", which houses, amongst other things, the city's Australian Art collection:



Their destination: Flinders St. Station, another Melbourne icon (older photo):



Another Melbourne icon: its trams:



Looking from the inside. The "clocks" are heritage protected, and were the traditional place for people to meet in this city: particularly for initiating romantic entanglements. Note the Altona clock set at midnight: no trains terminate there any more. They still function- these days without the guy who used to turn the clocks by poking and turning a stick- but inside the station are more modern electronic displays.



and teleporting further back:



On the platform (currently number 1-14, with 11 missing):



There are escalators, ramps, and subways: take your pick:



Beyond this, six tracks run onto a viaduct: on top of this masonry.







This leads to southern Cross, a 21st Century structure:







This station terminates regional and interstate trains: north of the station, most of the suburban trains go underground, and the regional trains are stabled:





Next station north: being rebuilt:



A few km west: crossing the Maribyrnong River:



And home at last (2 stops from the city)!

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