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Old February 9th, 2011, 10:03 PM   #1981
ChrisZwolle
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The population of California however, is, like British Columbia, along the coast and not in the mountains. In fact I'd say the Californian hinterland (being Nevada and Utah) is even more empty than the BC hinterland (Alberta).
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Old February 9th, 2011, 10:16 PM   #1982
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The population of California however, is, like British Columbia, along the coast and not in the mountains. In fact I'd say the Californian hinterland (being Nevada and Utah) is even more empty than the BC hinterland (Alberta).
Ok. So why the need for an extra wide highway?
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Old February 9th, 2011, 10:19 PM   #1983
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I don't know, I was just pointing out. I don't know traffic counts on this route...
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Old February 10th, 2011, 12:31 AM   #1984
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Ok. So why the need for an extra wide highway?
Simple. From Vancouver to Chilliwack, the traffic volume alone is your answer. It really should be widened to eight lanes. to there. Once you're past Chilliwack, the traffic drops off substantially, though it will probably need to be upgraded to four lanes right to Hope. At hope you have a choice of HWY 1, 3 and 5.
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Old February 10th, 2011, 12:47 AM   #1985
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The 401 is now 6 lanes from Windsor to Toronto {by end of the year} and will be 6 laned to Belleville with 5.
No its not.

As of this year, the 401 is six lanes between London and Cobourg. There are six lane segments east of Windsor (with a lightly traveled four-lane gap of over 100km between Windsor and London).

There are no firm plans to six lane east of Cobourg.

Further, it should be noted that the width of the 401 across Southern Ontario is directly related to the fact that 5 million people live in the Greater Toronto area.

And, even with the GTA's large population, it only takes a two hour drive north to find two lane trunk highways.
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Old February 10th, 2011, 12:59 AM   #1986
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Simple. From Vancouver to Chilliwack, the traffic volume alone is your answer. It really should be widened to eight lanes. to there. Once you're past Chilliwack, the traffic drops off substantially, though it will probably need to be upgraded to four lanes right to Hope. At hope you have a choice of HWY 1, 3 and 5.
Sorry. I was referring to the mountain highways of rural BC and California. Abbotsford to Chilliwack will be widened in due time. There isn't any gridlock, the traffic moves very quickly.
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Old February 10th, 2011, 03:29 AM   #1987
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Metro-One is an idiot. All he does is compare Vancouver with his love affair that is Japan. Then when stats are brought up contradicting his argument he says "well Japan has a higher population, you can't compare". And then according to the other BC users on here you can't compare us to anywhere else. Not California, not Ontario, nowhere. The quality and capacity of BC's highways is ranked dead last in the developed world. This has already been proved. And posting a 5 pages worth of annoying diagrams and schematics isn't going to change that.
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Old February 10th, 2011, 03:55 AM   #1988
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Originally Posted by dibble zee View Post
Metro-One is an idiot. All he does is compare Vancouver with his love affair that is Japan. Then when stats are brought up contradicting his argument he says "well Japan has a higher population, you can't compare". And then according to the other BC users on here you can't compare us to anywhere else. Not California, not Ontario, nowhere. The quality and capacity of BC's highways is ranked dead last in the developed world. This has already been proved. And posting a 5 pages worth of annoying diagrams and schematics isn't going to change that.
Where has it been "proved"?
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Old February 10th, 2011, 04:15 AM   #1989
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Originally Posted by dibble zee View Post
Metro-One is an idiot. All he does is compare Vancouver with his love affair that is Japan. Then when stats are brought up contradicting his argument he says "well Japan has a higher population, you can't compare". And then according to the other BC users on here you can't compare us to anywhere else. Not California, not Ontario, nowhere. The quality and capacity of BC's highways is ranked dead last in the developed world. This has already been proved. And posting a 5 pages worth of annoying diagrams and schematics isn't going to change that.


First of all, I don't appreciate being called an idiot and I am going to report you to a mod for that.

Second of all, please show me these proven documents.

Third, how did I contradict myself by using Japan and other areas (Ontario, California) with high populations displaying the needed population density to be able to fund extensive civil projects? And the fact that even with those densities many areas still only utilize 4 to 5 lanes highways and are often very highly tolled?

And third, I find it hilarious that you get mad at me for displaying "annoying diagrams and schematics" on a freeway page, especially since these are diagrams and schematics of u/c and proposed BC (Canadian" highway upgrades. What have you supplied to this thread besides your hatred towards jersey barriers?

And I do honestly believe you are the same member who went on a tantrum about jersey barriers on SSP whom I presume has been banned since.
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Old February 10th, 2011, 04:25 AM   #1990
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This kind of reminds me of Radi's Struma comments regarding how the quality of the motorway is directly related to the 'shiny-ness' of its guiderail. It's actually kind of funny.
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Old February 10th, 2011, 04:31 AM   #1991
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Metro-One is an idiot.
Someone needs to take a step back and a deep, relaxing breath. Check the forum rules which as well.

I hope you don't mean that. I can see why you may disagree, but that is uncalled for.
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Old February 10th, 2011, 04:54 AM   #1992
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dibble zee View Post
Metro-One is an idiot. All he does is compare Vancouver with his love affair that is Japan. Then when stats are brought up contradicting his argument he says "well Japan has a higher population, you can't compare". And then according to the other BC users on here you can't compare us to anywhere else. Not California, not Ontario, nowhere. The quality and capacity of BC's highways is ranked dead last in the developed world. This has already been proved. And posting a 5 pages worth of annoying diagrams and schematics isn't going to change that.
If someone is idiot it's you. Metro-One writes quite logical arguments you write total nonsense
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Old February 10th, 2011, 06:12 AM   #1993
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With the recent completion of the Larry Uteck interchange on NS 102 I figure I should get some video and pictures of it up. I'll do that within the next week or so. In the meantime, this is a video of NS 111 from its southern beginning on the Halifax side of the MacKay Bridge to the NS 118 junction at Exit 4, then north on the 118 to its terminus at NS 102 north.

Very nice roads around Halifax, and overall that whole area seems to be a very modern urban settlement.
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Old February 10th, 2011, 07:56 AM   #1994
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Puh-lease. BC has a difficult terrain, but it ain't so much different from Sierra Nevada (which has much higher mountain passes and rugged terrain) or even the American Rockies (higher mountain passes).

BC's mountain are much shorter than their American counterpart.
It's a little more complicated than that. Most major BC highways are situate in/traverse narrow valleys with rivers/lakes and the highways usually skirt the base of a mountain requiring extensive blasting among other expensive features.

Massive rock cuts, concrete retaining walls, bridges, tunnels, snowsheds, etc. are required in many sections of highway twinning/upgrades.

On the west coast, the S2S highway, for example, also required expensive ($hundreds of millions$) in concrete catchment dams at the upper reaches of the mountainside along with concrete debris flow channels to the creek bottom in order to prevent potential massive debris torrents from wiping out the highway below:



And twinning Hwy 1 in far eastern BC near the Rockies (SADT of 10,000) will cost ~$1 billion for just 4 km. Why?

- tunnels
- 6 rock/snow sheds
- 12 viaducts
- retaining walls
- massive rock cuts

http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/kickinghorse...al-Yoho_Br.pdf

But yeah, BC highways certainly need major further upgrades - tens of $billions$ worth both in Metro areas as well as rural areas for a high standard system.

Last edited by Sphynx; February 10th, 2011 at 10:06 AM.
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Old February 10th, 2011, 05:15 PM   #1995
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So they won't be building the 2 plus km tunnel then (which WAS strongly recommended by consultants AND Highways engineers). Figures. Not only that, it appears the the avalanche galleries different lengths will result in on side being protected and the other not.
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Old February 10th, 2011, 08:57 PM   #1996
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4 km long double tube tunnel in Europe usually cost between 200-300 M €. Above project is really very expensive.

Last edited by keber; February 10th, 2011 at 09:38 PM.
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Old February 10th, 2011, 09:22 PM   #1997
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The thing is, is that the tunnel would have bypassed the difficult areas in that part of the canyon. The current alignment they now appear to be going with, is just going to cost a lot more over the long run.

The same thing happened with the upgrading of the Sea To Sky Highway. There were some spots where avalanche galleries were strongly recommended, along with about four fairly short tunnels. None were built. Guess what, aside from more passing areas, the STS still has the same problem with rock slides. As you could probably guess, this is going to cost the government over the long term.
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Old February 10th, 2011, 09:33 PM   #1998
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I wish they were building the tunnel as well for that stretch of the TCH, but the new plan isn't that bad, it still involves several shorter tunnels through the worst parts (along with several sheds). I will post the schematics when I have time this weekend.

North America just doesn't seem to build tunnels.
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Old February 10th, 2011, 09:42 PM   #1999
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North America just doesn't seem to build tunnels.
Interesting observation, I always wondered about the lack of tunnels compared to Europe.

Although I must add many European tunnels are nonsense tunnels in a technical sense. Many motorways could've been built without them, especially outside the highest mountain ranges.
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Old February 10th, 2011, 09:44 PM   #2000
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The thing is, is that the tunnel would have bypassed the difficult areas in that part of the canyon. The current alignment they now appear to be going with, is just going to cost a lot more over the long run.
Not only over the long run, already construction of many short but difficult objects is usually more expensive than building long tunnel that bypasses all critical points except if geology is very demanding.
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