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Old September 23rd, 2005, 10:24 PM   #201
James Foong
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Thanks alot!
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Old September 23rd, 2005, 10:28 PM   #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by get13
That 401 picture at the top of this thread reminds me of the M8 in Glasgow(Which in my opinion is more spectacular than the 401 and is as spectacular as a road can be )







Thats an interesting looking freeway. I have to say its kind of funny to see such large use of 'box-beam' type guardrail. (That's what its called in Ontario at least). Box-beam was used fairly extensively on Ontario freeways in the 1970s and 80s. In the mid-1980s the box-beam design came out of favour, as a stretch in Ontario had become to brittle over the winter months and failed. This lead to the development of other types of barriers, and eventually Ontario tall-wall which has become the favoured barrier in this juristiction.

Personally, from an asthetic perspective I really like the box-beam barrier, but unfortunately, its just not a very safe barrier. I sencerely hope that box-beam is not extensively used in England and has been abandoned for a much safer (typically concrete) barrier.

Cheers.
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Old September 23rd, 2005, 10:40 PM   #203
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^ That box beam stuff is the same that they have between Whitby and Ajax and frankly if a car hit it I could see it doing more bad than good throwing some high speed projectiles in the air. You would be the guy to ask so do you know if they plan on replacing that stretch???
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Old September 23rd, 2005, 11:30 PM   #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJoe
^ That box beam stuff is the same that they have between Whitby and Ajax and frankly if a car hit it I could see it doing more bad than good throwing some high speed projectiles in the air. You would be the guy to ask so do you know if they plan on replacing that stretch???
There are no plans on the books yet to replace the box-beam in Durham Region, but its definately going to happen. The MTO has completed the preliminary designs to widen the 401 through Durham (as far east as Park Road), and you can bet these projects will involve the replacement of the box-beam and installation of brand new tall-wall.

Right now, there aren't any definative schedules to widen the 401 through Durham (with the exception of between Westney and Harwood, which is tentatively scheduled for next year). My guess is that the stalling of the 407 (and in turn, the LakeRidge Road connector and interchange) has also stalled further widenings east of Ajax.

Cheers.
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Old September 24th, 2005, 12:11 AM   #205
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I see. How many lanes do you figure will end up going to Oshawa when it happens??
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Old September 24th, 2005, 02:06 AM   #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJoe
I see. How many lanes do you figure will end up going to Oshawa when it happens??
Oshawa is going to be a mess, and the MTO knows it. It is by no accident that the prelimary design stage for widening has only progressed as far as Park Road.

Now, with my speculation hat on, I think the MTO will design for at least a cross-section of 10-lanes. A 10-lane cross-section has been proposed from Ajax easterly to Park Road, so its only natural to assume they would want the same through Oshawa.

Cheers.
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Old September 26th, 2005, 06:30 AM   #207
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Here's an artistic pic of the 401 (thanks to DrJoe for the hosting)
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Old September 26th, 2005, 04:00 PM   #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grey Towers
Here's an artistic pic of the 401 (thanks to DrJoe for the hosting)
Its almost a shame that this picture is so artistic. Good vintage photos (ie, old steel barrieres, truss lighting, and idealy concrete driving surface) can be quite difficult to find.

Cheers.
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Old September 28th, 2005, 04:44 PM   #209
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Is that photo photoshopped? Because there aren't any visible potholes in it.
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Old September 30th, 2005, 09:24 PM   #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJoe
This thing is only 12 lanes wide, has flimsy little guard rails, lacks safety lanes and shoulders in some spots. Infact I'd go as far to say this wouldnt even be allowed to be built in many North American jurisdictions.
The M8 is 16 lanes wide at its largest, and has a 50mph speed limit as it is cutting through Glasgow. Thus there is absolutely no need for Concrete guard rails - they are a waste of money.

The M8 is the busiest motorway in Europe. It cuts through the heart of "downtown" Glasgow, much like many North American freeways, and has elevated and tunnel sections through the city centre as well. The 10 mile stretch of Motorway that cuts through Glasgow has the highest junction density of any motorway in the World - there are so many junctions it is almost dangerous, and is extremely hard to drive though. (makes it much more fun though ) The M8 also uses the Kingston Bridge to cross the River Clyde when entering the city centre. It is one of the worlds widest bridges at 10 lanes wide (11 including the service lane) and is the busiest road bridge in Europe. It carries 20 times more traffic than it was designed for.

It's a damn fascinating Motorway, of that there is no doubt. Those pictures posted aren't in very good and don't do the M8 any justice at all. I would post better pictures, but this thread is about the 401, not the M8.


The 401 is huge though!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sonysnob
Personally, from an asthetic perspective I really like the box-beam barrier, but unfortunately, its just not a very safe barrier. I sencerely hope that box-beam is not extensively used in England and has been abandoned for a much safer (typically concrete) barrier.
Almost the entire of the UK uses box-beam or wire barriers for it's Motorways. There is no need for concrete guards - they cost more and are dangerous to crash into. I honestly don't know why everyone else uses them.
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Old October 1st, 2005, 12:51 AM   #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Boy David
The M8 is 16 lanes wide at its largest, and has a 50mph speed limit as it is cutting through Glasgow. Thus there is absolutely no need for Concrete guard rails - they are a waste of money.
If advances in safety are a waste of money, why have barriers at all? Why not just have the narrow strips of grass separating carriageways much like many of the older freeways did at inital construction.


Quote:
It's a damn fascinating Motorway, of that there is no doubt. Those pictures posted aren't in very good and don't do the M8 any justice at all. I would post better pictures, but this thread is about the 401, not the M8.
I am sure nobody would mind if you posted a few more pictures of the M-8. I am certainly intrigued


Quote:
Almost the entire of the UK uses box-beam or wire barriers for it's Motorways. There is no need for concrete guards - they cost more and are dangerous to crash into. I honestly don't know why everyone else uses them.
It is unfortunate that your knowledge of barrier technology is so limited. Many juristictions have moved away from box beam because its safety record sucks. It's an expensive barrier to maintain since it can rust, and needs to be replaced everytime it is struck, even in a very minor accident. Concrete, while more expensive inially is much safer (and in actually, are much safer to collide with then steal barriers), and in the long run much cheaper, since it has so much more longevity in a collision.

Cheers.
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Old October 1st, 2005, 03:13 AM   #212
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If you think that picture is mind blowing, than you should come to downtown Chicago!
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Old October 1st, 2005, 03:16 AM   #213
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barriers look a mess, then need to put grass in the middle or somethin, anything but them
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Old October 1st, 2005, 03:34 AM   #214
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Is that very first pic a photo of the evacuation from Houston?
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Old October 1st, 2005, 03:48 AM   #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Freeman
Is that very first pic a photo of the evacuation from Houston?
That's the first pic on the second page.
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Old October 1st, 2005, 03:56 AM   #216
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Not sure if this was answered already, but are there any special lanes on the 401, such as HOV or Bus only? Doesn't look like it.
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Old October 1st, 2005, 04:10 AM   #217
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^ nope

Quote:
Originally Posted by effer
If you think that picture is mind blowing, than you should come to downtown Chicago!
Why? This is the busiest highway in North America, it doesnt get anymore "mind blowing" than this.
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Old October 1st, 2005, 06:08 AM   #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonysnob
It is unfortunate that your knowledge of barrier technology is so limited. Many juristictions have moved away from box beam because its safety record sucks. It's an expensive barrier to maintain since it can rust, and needs to be replaced everytime it is struck, even in a very minor accident. Concrete, while more expensive inially is much safer (and in actually, are much safer to collide with then steal barriers), and in the long run much cheaper, since it has so much more longevity in a collision.

Cheers.
I have thought about this. Here in Holland they use the box beam for 99%. but you see time and again after an accident that they have to send in a crew to repair it.
I'm not sure what the ''high wall'' is but this is a Canadian designed barrier in Wellington, New Zealand installed in the late 1980s.

Its a steal casing filled with gravel.
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Old October 1st, 2005, 03:36 PM   #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by effer
If you think that picture is mind blowing, than you should come to downtown Chicago!
The 401 was actually modelled after the Dan Ryan. However, many elements of the 401's design were greatly improved on.

Cheers.
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Old October 1st, 2005, 03:40 PM   #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIWIKAAS
I have thought about this. Here in Holland they use the box beam for 99%. but you see time and again after an accident that they have to send in a crew to repair it.
I'm not sure what the ''high wall'' is but this is a Canadian designed barrier in Wellington, New Zealand installed in the late 1980s.

Its a steal casing filled with gravel.
I am not really sure when this barrier first materialized in Ontario, though it was used. In fact there is still a short section of the QEW in Burlington with this type of Barrier. The only other Ontario highway that I know had this barrier was Highway 400 in Toronto. I seems that it never took off here.

Cheers.
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