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Old February 23rd, 2013, 04:49 PM   #2341
ChrisZwolle
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The volume is 5,000 - 7,000 vehicles per day.
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Old February 23rd, 2013, 06:08 PM   #2342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The volume is 5,000 - 7,000 vehicles per day.
That clearly doesn't justify upgrade to full freeway status.
In Europe there must be thousands of km of roads which are in 1x1 profile and carry much higher traffic levels.
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Old February 23rd, 2013, 06:15 PM   #2343
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That clearly doesn't justify upgrade to full freeway status.
In Europe there must be thousands of km of roads which are in 1x1 profile and carry much higher traffic levels.
In The Netherlands only I'd say.
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Old February 23rd, 2013, 06:21 PM   #2344
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In Europe there must be thousands of km of roads which are in 1x1 profile and carry much higher traffic levels.
I don't see why this should be relevant. There are also thousands of kilometers of motorways in the world with this kind of traffic volumes.

It's not like "Canada can't build a motorway because Europe has non-motorways that have more traffic".

Traffic volumes are not the only argument to build a motorway. Other reasons include travel times and traffic safety.
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Old February 23rd, 2013, 06:48 PM   #2345
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I wouldn't mind if the upgraded the highway through Chamberlain. I doubt it's much of a bottleneck, but I can't stand inconsistencies.
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Old February 23rd, 2013, 06:54 PM   #2346
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Also keep in mind that Saskatchewan only has a population of 1 million. That's not a big tax base to draw from meaning expensive projects like a freeway from Saskatoon to Regina would be a massive strain on the province's budget.

*Note that in Canada, most roads are provincially controlled unlike the USA and other places. The federal government may chip into the project a bit, but the province needs to foot the rest of the bill.


In Ontario, volumes need to be 10,000 at a minimum to justify grade-separation.
-However, exceptions can be made like the Highway 400 extension to Sudbury.
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Old February 23rd, 2013, 07:05 PM   #2347
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Is that why Canadian Route 1 is twinned from Calgary to Baniff but not westward to Kamloops?
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Old February 23rd, 2013, 07:52 PM   #2348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I don't see why this should be relevant. There are also thousands of kilometers of motorways in the world with this kind of traffic volumes.

It's not like "Canada can't build a motorway because Europe has non-motorways that have more traffic".

Traffic volumes are not the only argument to build a motorway. Other reasons include travel times and traffic safety.
Sure, but looking on this route it is dead straight, with good not obstructed views, little traffic on the main route as well as on the intersecting roads, it is already twinned etc.
Really not dangerous or slow. It wouldn't be the best use of taxpayer money.


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Is that why Canadian Route 1 is twinned from Calgary to Baniff but not westward to Kamloops?
I think it actually has a lot to do with challenging topography. I guess that traffic on Trans-Canada Hwy is higher than between Regina and Saskatoon.

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Also keep in mind that Saskatchewan only has a population of 1 million. That's not a big tax base to draw from meaning expensive projects like a freeway from Saskatoon to Regina would be a massive strain on the province's budget.
That was precisely my thinking. A lot of money spend with little visible benefit. Upgrading roads around the urban centers must have much more sense.

Last edited by geogregor; February 23rd, 2013 at 08:34 PM.
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Old February 23rd, 2013, 10:12 PM   #2349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haljackey View Post
Also keep in mind that Saskatchewan only has a population of 1 million. That's not a big tax base to draw from meaning expensive projects like a freeway from Saskatoon to Regina would be a massive strain on the province's budget.

*Note that in Canada, most roads are provincially controlled unlike the USA and other places. The federal government may chip into the project a bit, but the province needs to foot the rest of the bill.


In Ontario, volumes need to be 10,000 at a minimum to justify grade-separation.
-However, exceptions can be made like the Highway 400 extension to Sudbury.
It wouldn't surprise me if part of the funding came from the face that it's part of the Trans-Canada Highway network and that it also runs through Tony Clement's riding. One could be used to justify the other.

The areas north of Superior that could really use some sort of Federal funding are unfortunately held by the opposition NDP. If their upward trajectory continues though, they could be in a position to invest in their ridings. The NDP is after all pushing toward a national transportation strategy which this country sorely lacks.
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Old February 23rd, 2013, 10:14 PM   #2350
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Canada would really benefit form a full-blown highway Vancouver-Halifax link (upgrades, using of existing highways, a few new bypasses and re-aligned sectors)
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Old February 23rd, 2013, 10:21 PM   #2351
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I don't think the Trans-Canadian Highway in the central provinces is much different in usage and function as I-94 or I-90 in the Dakotas or the High Plains. They could've been built as freeways in the 1960s. However, it's a different time now, so new freeways are not as common as they were 40 - 50 years ago.

The cost of road construction has risen much more than general inflation in the last 3 decades or so, so it's quite a strain on the transportation budget to build hundreds of kilometers of freeway in present day.
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Old February 23rd, 2013, 10:43 PM   #2352
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The duplexed section of Hwy. 11/17 is one bottleneck of the Trans-Canada as there are no alternate routes short of going through the US. I know anecdotally (though I'm sure there's a report out there to confirm it within the industry) that a lot of truck traffic prefers to go through the US rather than travel through northern Ontario when travelling across the country. At the very least they could repave and twin that section. In the event of an accident, traffic could be diverted onto the other directional flow to create a bit of redundancy.
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Old February 23rd, 2013, 10:54 PM   #2353
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I never understood why Ontario is so empty north of Thunder Bay.
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Old February 23rd, 2013, 11:22 PM   #2354
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Quote:
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I never understood why Ontario is so empty north of Thunder Bay.
That is a interesting case in general in Canada. The middle parts of the southern provinces are usually among the northernmost areas that are somewhat developed, say between 49 and 55 N, comparable to the British isles, Benelux, Denmark, Northern Germany.

Scandinavia is developed much farther north. There are decent amounts of towns and cities, integrated road networks at a similar latitude as Northern Territories and Nunavut. Ontario and Québec are even more interesting because there are virtually no roads north of 49 N (Paris is at 48.5 N).

Apparently there was never a need to found towns and exploit natural resources that far north. Of course the climate is an issue, but that counts for Sweden and Finland as well.
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Old February 23rd, 2013, 11:26 PM   #2355
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I never understood why Ontario is so empty north of Thunder Bay.
You might as well ask why folks are not so eager to live in Siberia, particularly in the central and northern parts.
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Old February 23rd, 2013, 11:28 PM   #2356
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Seriously, have you all completely forgotten about the Gulf stream? The climate in inland Canada above 50th parallel is quite similar to that in Siberia and not at all like northern Scandinavia
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Old February 23rd, 2013, 11:33 PM   #2357
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The Gulf Stream mainly influences the Norwegian coast and keeps it fairly mild. But northern Sweden and Finland are bitter cold during the winter as well due protection from the Scandinavian Highlands. In Siberia, cold was never considered an issue for development.
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Old February 23rd, 2013, 11:57 PM   #2358
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The Gulf Stream mainly influences the Norwegian coast and keeps it fairly mild. But northern Sweden and Finland are bitter cold during the winter as well due protection from the Scandinavian Highlands. In Siberia, cold was never considered an issue for development.
The Gulf Stream influences the climate of northern Sweden and Finland as well only to a slightly lesser degree than coastal Norway. In fact the influence of the stream, while gradually diminishing in the eastward direction, is still noticeable all the way to Ural mountains. The city of Rovaniemi in Finland, for example, is at 66 N but still has six months of above freezing temperatures. In contrast equivalent territories in Canada (well north of Hudson bay) are frozen wasteland.

As for Siberia there are no sizable cities above the 58th parallel. Only mining towns, many of them established by a slave labor during Stalin's years.
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Last edited by Sunfuns; February 24th, 2013 at 12:14 AM.
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Old February 24th, 2013, 12:06 AM   #2359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Is that why Canadian Route 1 is twinned from Calgary to Baniff but not westward to Kamloops?
The Trans-Canada highway is a federal highway, so provincial boundaries don't apply as much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil View Post
It wouldn't surprise me if part of the funding came from the face that it's part of the Trans-Canada Highway network and that it also runs through Tony Clement's riding.
Nope, Sask. Highway 11 is a provincial road.

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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Canada would really benefit form a full-blown highway Vancouver-Halifax link (upgrades, using of existing highways, a few new bypasses and re-aligned sectors)
In the 1990's there was a proposal to make the trans-canada a full freeway from coast to coast. The bill was defeated because it isn't really needed because traffic volumes are so low.
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Old February 24th, 2013, 11:21 PM   #2360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Is that why Canadian Route 1 is twinned from Calgary to Baniff but not westward to Kamloops?
It's the geography. That said though, they are SLOWLY (glaciers move faster) working on it though. Some sections are being upgraded. The Kicking Horse Canyon project is the most noteworthy (linky below), but there are also other projects that have been completed over the years. I doubt it will be full motorway, like, say, France for example, but it will still be far better than what's there now.


Kicking Horse Canyon Project:
http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/kickinghorse/index.htm
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