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Old February 9th, 2014, 05:44 AM   #2621
Innsertnamehere
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ah but that is changing. The whole area is becoming the cities new waterfront. The Gardiner is an peice of infrastructure meant for an industrial area that in a few years time will be in the middle of a dense residential area and cutting across the cities waterfront. Any work done to this won't start until 2020, and by that time the east donlands (the area south of the part of the gardiner in question) will be approaching completion.
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Old February 9th, 2014, 07:04 AM   #2622
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The Gardiner is a real blight and that area of the Toronto Waterfront is exploding in population and work places. The Gardiner is old and the cost of repair will be high which is money Toronto doesn't have and for most in Toronto tearing down the Eastern Gardiner {which has much less traffic levels than the section flowing west from downtown} will mean next to nothing and people in the inner city will be happy when the monstrocity is gone.
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Old February 9th, 2014, 10:31 AM   #2623
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the Eastern Gardiner {which has much less traffic levels than the section flowing west from downtown}
It has also less traffic than the 401. Also, the transit share to the CBD is quite high.

However, these facts are irrelevant to this issue. The one thing that matters in this kind of decision-making is the number of vehicles per hour and per day.

The current traffic volume on this particular segment of the Gardiner Expressway is 110,000 vehicles per day. They want to add more people and businesses to that area, so it is likely it will increase.

To compare, it is much higher than other urban arterials in Toronto;

* Spadina carries 45,000 near the Gardiner and 22,000 at the Spadina Crescent.
* University carries 50,000 at its max
* Yonge carries in the 20,000 - 25,000 range
* Bloor carries 30,000
* Kingston carries 30,000 - 40,000
* Allen Road carries 63,000 at its southern terminus
* Black Creek carries 45,000

These are the busiest urban arterials of Toronto, and nearly all of them carry less than half the volume of the eastern Gardiner.
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Old February 9th, 2014, 05:26 PM   #2624
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Wait... Didn't they tear down that "less used eastern part" of the Gardiner already?
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Old February 9th, 2014, 06:00 PM   #2625
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Yes, the stub that was supposed to connect the Gardiner to the cancelled Scarborough Expressway was demolished. This was the span east of the Don Valley Parkway.

I actually think if they rebuilt this to a arterial similar to the Lincoln Highway / West Street in NYC it could look quite nice. I'd like to see pedestrian over/underpasses however or maybe even a pedestrian scramble.

Since this new road would be sort of expressway-like (very few or no buildings fronting onto it) it could carry its volumes semi-decently. The traffic that uses the Gardiner now would likely also disperse a bit as well, lessening the volume on the road.

-----

All things considered, this is a though issue that's been debated for decades. With the highway starting to crumble, a decision is needed soon as to what the fate of the Gardiner will be.

Toronto has an election later this year, and I'm sure this will be a hot topic.
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Old February 9th, 2014, 06:09 PM   #2626
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Toronto has an election later this year, and I'm sure this will be a hot topic.
Probably why Rob Ford will win again

I saw a proposal to run a highway along the hydro corridor to meet the 401, to approximate the cancelled Scarborough. Realistically downtown Toronto has very poor road access, especially from the East, the "Don Valley Parking Lot" being a consequence...

Last edited by Kanadzie; February 9th, 2014 at 06:16 PM.
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Old February 9th, 2014, 06:26 PM   #2627
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Its much better for the pedestrian as the replacement boulevard would be roughly 35 meters wide, enough for a crossing on a single light, compared to the current setup where it takes 2. Toronto's other 8 lane boulevard, University Avenue, is roughly 40 meters wide and can barely be crossed in a single signal. While not an ideal pedestrian situation, it is a far cry from the Gardiner.


The problem with the current gardiner is the highway off ramps. Cars fly off of them going 80-90km/h and don't look for pedestrians at all at the bottom. I have nearly been hit a couple of times walking past a gardiner off ramp. The pillars from the gardiner also make it easy to not see a pedestrian when turning.

There is also the issue of general urbanism. the longest distance to cross both the gardiner and the rail corridor is over 170 meters right now, far too long in far too hostile of an environment to be a "nice" walk.
The report states that emissions would drop with the at grade boulevard, largely because less cars would be using it.

The replacement would have 3 intersections, Cherry, Parliament, and Sherbourne. The current distance to walk under the Gardiner (and across the 6 lane Lakeshore road) are roughly 65, 45, and 100 meters, with all 3 requiring 2 light cycles to do. The new boulevard would be 35 meters wide, and as I mentioned, would take a single light signal to cross.

in general right now the Gardiner varies in width between 60-100 meters and does nothing but to serve the movement of vehicles, the exact opposite of what you want in the middle of the city.

The gardiner also largely serves a single purpose of getting cars downtown. There is very, very little "through" traffic. The cars that use this road get off in the city, so its not that big of a deal to have 2 or 3 additional blocks to travel. Most DVP traffic gets off at the Eastern Avenue overpass, the Gardiner traffic largely gets off at Spadina, etc. this is a grade seperated road that serves a local purpose, unlike the further west portions of the Gardiner or the DVP which serves to get people in and out of the core.
The pedestrian experience from the new Lakeshore Boulevard will not be drastically different from what exists now. It is extremely unlikely that pedestrians will be able to cross the new Lakeshore in a single phase. The traffic signals along Lakeshore will need to have a strong east-west bias in order to accommodate all of the vehicular traffic. It takes peds a long time to cross the street, and that movement in one phase will eat up too much of the signal phasing.

Correct me if I am wrong, but even the new traffic signals along Hwy 7 through Markham/Richmond Hill have two stage pedestrian crossings now.
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Old February 9th, 2014, 07:10 PM   #2628
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highway 7 is 40 meters wide, wider than this would be. the 35 meter width of the proposed street means you would probably need a roughly 20 second clearing for pedestrians to cross. if you did 30/60 second cycles or something similar you would be fine.
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Old February 9th, 2014, 07:40 PM   #2629
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Interesting interchange design in Calgary. It's the 201 / Crowchild Trail interchange.
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trips by FabienA380, on Flickr
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Old February 9th, 2014, 07:49 PM   #2630
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It is like they had a large ROW and so decided an interchange design to use the largest amount of space possible
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Old February 9th, 2014, 07:52 PM   #2631
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere View Post
highway 7 is 40 meters wide, wider than this would be. the 35 meter width of the proposed street means you would probably need a roughly 20 second clearing for pedestrians to cross. if you did 30/60 second cycles or something similar you would be fine.
37m is what is proposed. And its a stretch to think that the the left turning movements from EB-NB could be accommodated with a single left turn lane, which probably means that the cross-section will be winder than what is shown. Not to mention that your signal phasing only works if there isn't a significant left turn phase, which also seems unlikely.

What is proposed is very similar to the intersection with Lakeshore East and Leslie Street, which functions very poorly during peak afternoon flow.

Even with the ramp configuration as shown, the "replace" option is by far the narrowest, and most pedestrian friendly.
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Old February 10th, 2014, 09:37 PM   #2632
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Highway 10 into Brampton / Mississauga.
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Old February 11th, 2014, 12:46 AM   #2633
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I guess that is Brampton under the clouds. Sauga is far far away Mind you that tallest thing in the distance, might be one of the "dancing cokebottle" buildings in Mississauga
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Old February 11th, 2014, 01:08 AM   #2634
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I still don't like how they didn't upgrade highway 10 to a full freeway. Just built 5 lanes and called it a day.
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Old February 11th, 2014, 01:14 AM   #2635
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I still don't like how they didn't upgrade highway 10 to a full freeway. Just built 5 lanes and called it a day.
That 5 lane road (or really 4 lanes and appearing disappearing middle) is such a piece of crap I can't even imagine or explain how crappy that is Especially since you can't even pass on the middle lane either... and of course, OPP everywhere in the bushes and 80 km/h limit.

So instead they need to keep dragging 410 north and north but meanwhile if they just did it properly in the 80's would be fine...

the amount of people still living up there is huge and crazy. Horrible commute
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Old February 11th, 2014, 01:38 AM   #2636
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I uploaded some pics of Hwy 10's southern cousin (the 410) earlier today:

http://asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_410-4...410_images.htm

From high atop the expressway from the Hwy 401 ramp:


Long Flyover:


Some signage:








Central Views:




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Old February 15th, 2014, 09:03 PM   #2637
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Alberta

The Trans-Canada Highway near Banff, Alberta.

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Scenic Route by njchow82, on Flickr
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Old February 16th, 2014, 06:16 AM   #2638
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now only if they could twin it between Calgary and Vancouver. Expensive, but I think it would be worth it, its the last real "missing link" of trans Canada twinning other than northern Ontario which quite frankly is so low volume that it isn't really worth it. but even then chunks of the busier portions of the northern Ontario stretch are getting upgraded.
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Old February 16th, 2014, 11:31 AM   #2639
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now only if they could twin it between Calgary and Vancouver. Expensive, but I think it would be worth it
Some sections are already u/c (I think near Revelstoke?). Do you know which sections are planned to be upgraded next (time schedule?)?
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Old February 16th, 2014, 06:34 PM   #2640
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Some sections are already u/c (I think near Revelstoke?). Do you know which sections are planned to be upgraded next (time schedule?)?
They keep going at it, piece by piece, 5 km or 10 km, but it's 1000 km to go

Mind you it is a lot better than it used to be, once you get to Kamloops the road is very good. But through the mountains the road is garbage (scenery beautiful though) and you will swear being stuck behind truck or worse, motorhome...
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