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Old February 16th, 2014, 06:44 PM   #2641
MichiH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanadzie View Post
but it's 1000 km to go
Well, about 400km are 1x2, not 1000km .

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Originally Posted by Kanadzie View Post
But through the mountains the road is garbage (scenery beautiful though) and you will swear being stuck behind truck or worse, motorhome...
Yes, you are always stuck behind a truck. The road is scenic (especially the eastern part) but also monotonous after some hours....
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Old February 16th, 2014, 08:25 PM   #2642
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They keep going at it, piece by piece, 5 km or 10 km, but it's 1000 km to go

Mind you it is a lot better than it used to be, once you get to Kamloops the road is very good. But through the mountains the road is garbage (scenery beautiful though) and you will swear being stuck behind truck or worse, motorhome...
I'm imagining getting stuck behind trucks happens in Northern Ontario as well, though. It it's not twinned, is it at least four lanes all or most of the way?
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Old February 16th, 2014, 08:29 PM   #2643
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I'm imagining getting stuck behind trucks happens in Northern Ontario as well, though. It it's not twinned, is it at least four lanes all or most of the way?
No, not at all. You're on two lane OPP-infested hell as soon as you get to the western side of Ottawa until inside Manitoba. I don't know if I can imagine worse, plodding along at 90 ish km/h or a bit less behind slow vehicles, finally you get the passing lane appears, you have space, now you can go, you downshift, and, oh, sitting there is damned OPP irradiating you with that hairdryer. FFS. (Twinned is just "divided expressway", but Ontario usually goes full bore between 2-lane cow path or freeway, out west they tend to stick with twinning, but there is not much to justify the overpasses anyhow)

The next time I drive west, if I am not driving my nice car (so seems not so likely soon), I will pass by the private, gravel logging road, very north, you bypass the traffic at the Soo and you save at least 100 km...

On the other hand Ontario has been working very hard these past few years to basically extend the hwy 400 freeway from Toronto to Sudbury (along old hwy 69), I guess they are tired of replacing the stolen signs much like those Austrians

Last edited by Kanadzie; February 16th, 2014 at 08:36 PM.
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Old February 16th, 2014, 09:35 PM   #2644
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Traffic volumes on the Trans-Canada Highway in Northern Ontario are really low, some 2,000 - 3,000 vpd between Manitoba and Thunder Bay and similar between Thunder Bay and Sault Ste. Marie and 4,000 - 5,000 vpd between Sault Ste. Marie and Sudbury. That should allow plenty of passing possibilities, depending on how good the visibility ahead is.
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Old February 16th, 2014, 09:43 PM   #2645
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Traffic volumes on the Trans-Canada Highway in Northern Ontario are really low, some 2,000 - 3,000 vpd between Manitoba and Thunder Bay and similar between Thunder Bay and Sault Ste. Marie and 4,000 - 5,000 vpd between Sault Ste. Marie and Sudbury. That should allow plenty of passing possibilities, depending on how good the visibility ahead is.
It isn't so bad, but it isn't so great either. The "summer rush" complicates it significantly...
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Old February 16th, 2014, 09:50 PM   #2646
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Alberta is twinning Highway 63 up to Fort McMurray. That is also a low volume route (2,500 - 4,500 vpd), their main reason is traffic safety and access for large machinery parts for the oil sands reason.
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Old February 16th, 2014, 10:24 PM   #2647
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Alberta is twinning Highway 63 up to Fort McMurray. That is also a low volume route (2,500 - 4,500 vpd), their main reason is traffic safety and access for large machinery parts for the oil sands reason.
That road has a host of special issues, especially the large machinery transports, some of them are passing machinery wider than both lanes of the road

The other issue is the typical worker, they do long days then have some days off, anyone with a family in Edmonton or south is not going to sleep that night in the camp, instead will drive home and sleep in their house with their wife. But Edmonton is 450 km and Calgary 750 km away. They drive and get a little tired, cross centre line and because of relatively high traffic volume for such road go and kill themselves.

It is a large media issue and the government was putting many police everywhere, but it hasn't helped any, the main issue still being the tired drivers and not the fast ones. Twinning would virtually solve the issue but it is coming very slowly. The design is interesting though, generally they are building a new carriageway on the northbound direction, with a very wide right lane to permit the transports to go without having to close the road to traffic, which would save a lot of time for people.
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Old February 17th, 2014, 08:50 PM   #2648
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That road has a host of special issues, especially the large machinery transports, some of them are passing machinery wider than both lanes of the road
Something like this? (Manitoba)
image hosted on flickr
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Old February 18th, 2014, 03:16 AM   #2649
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Oh bigger than that, that is just a house

That is one thing very popular in Alberta though. Transport of buildings on roads.

They have even made consideration on roads even into Calgary for a "high clearance road network" where there are no impediments less than some large height (10 m?) on the road, no overpasses (or overpass bypass ability, like a diamond interchange has), power lines kept far from the road, high mast lighting, etc.

On other roads there are permits you can have so the power company will come and lift each power line / phone cable for you on the road as you pass with your over-height vehicle.

Here is one of the things they send up Hwy 63, 780 tonnes wine cork
http://www.albertaoilmagazine.com/20...ules-fort-mac/

Or a video of a small truck, pulled by two trucks and pushed by a third just to get enough power up the hill
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Old February 18th, 2014, 03:30 AM   #2650
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If you don't mind dealing with the border and the nonsense from customs officers, you're probably better off cutting through the US if driving from Eastern and Western Canada. Wider highways, cheaper gas, and more accommodation.

The opposite is true in some instances. If going to Michigan from Upstate NY or New England, shorter to go through Canada than going around Lake Erie via Ohio.
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Old February 18th, 2014, 03:56 PM   #2651
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Some factoids about Manitoba:


The Federal Government has collected fuel taxes from Manitoba at the rate of some $155 million per year and has, until recently, returned on average less than 5% of those funds back to the province.

The Provincial Government has collected, on average, about $224 M in provincial fuel taxes over each of the last six years. Over the same period of time, an average of $250 million was invested in road related expenditures each year.

Manitobans were advised that their Provincial Government operates some 18,000 kilometres of roads and highways that contain over 1200 bridge structures. Two thirds of our network is paved and the remainder is gravel.

The normal service life of the paved roads is between 20 and 25 years. The average age of our paved provincial road system is now 21 years. Nearly one third of our road system is in need of restoration and rebuilding. Some 4600 kilometres of paved highways and 4500 kilometres of gravel roads do not meet Departmental standards.

123 bridge structures have exceeded their design life of 50 years while a further 222 bridges (145 timber) are between the age of 40 to 50 years and will become candidates for upgrade or replacement within ten years. The complete renewal of our road system would require an estimated investment of $1.6 Billion.

https://www.gov.mb.ca/mit/2020/index.html
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Old February 18th, 2014, 07:24 PM   #2652
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Why are the roads in North America in worse condition than those in Europe?
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Old February 18th, 2014, 08:03 PM   #2653
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Originally Posted by Botev1912 View Post
Why are the roads in North America in worse condition than those in Europe?
In short:
Americans don't want to pay (a lot of) tax --> not enough tax money to build and maintain roads --> crappy roads
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Old February 19th, 2014, 02:16 AM   #2654
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In short:
Americans don't want to pay (a lot of) tax --> not enough tax money to build and maintain roads --> crappy roads
Mostly true.
However don't exaggerate with the term "crappy roads". It all depends where. There is a lot of great roads in America.

Also consider the density of population. Small tax base of Manitoba (for example, it could as well be Montana or Wyoming or many other big states or provinces) have to upkeep thousands of miles of roads in rather harsh climate. It's not mild and cosy like in the Netherlands
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Old February 19th, 2014, 02:18 AM   #2655
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Mostly true.
However don't exaggerate with crappy roads. It all depends where.
I meant crappy-er (is there an actual word for that? :P) roads. So more crap than European roads. Which doesn't mean they're all crap. Just means that the European ones are better.
That's what we pay taxes for (and a whole lot of other stuff, but that'd be off-topic)
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Old February 19th, 2014, 02:49 AM   #2656
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It might be true on a global basis but on a more detailed one falls apart somewhat

Notably:

American (low taxes) roads much much better than Canadian (high taxes)

Alberta (lower taxes) roads much much better than Manitoba (high taxes), etc.
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Old February 19th, 2014, 05:16 AM   #2657
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American (low taxes) roads much much better than Canadian (high taxes)
I would have thought that it would be more due to the fact that the US has 300 million people compared to Canadas 35 million people in roughly similar size land areas...
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Old February 19th, 2014, 06:51 AM   #2658
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what do you mean better road? Ontario's highways are built to much, much higher standards than most US highways. there are relatively few deficient sections of the 400 series network and they are almost all in plans to be upgraded. Ontario has invented many innovations that are increasingly becoming industry standard as well such as the Parclo interchange, Ontario Tall Wall, etc. I always find merge lanes so tiny in the US compared to Ontarios which can be up to 300 meters long.

as for pavement quality, it depends on province and area and highway.

when you compare east coast or midwest US to Ontario, I find Ontario's roads are much better.

Quebec has the issue of way overbuilding their road network and having too much to maintain, getting behind. a lot of the smaller provinces, especially the really spread out ones such as Saskatchewan and Manitoba have issues, but the amount of road-kms they maintain to support such a small population is staggering.
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Old February 19th, 2014, 07:16 AM   #2659
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Europe is such a large area with many countries. To say "European roads are better than USA roads" is complete and utter bullshit. Get outside of the major highways in Eastern Europe and you find a lot of 3rd world style roads. They are basically goat trails. You don't find that in the US
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Old February 19th, 2014, 07:19 AM   #2660
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what do you mean better road? Ontario's highways are built to much, much higher standards than most US highways. there are relatively few deficient sections of the 400 series network and they are almost all in plans to be upgraded. Ontario has invented many innovations that are increasingly becoming industry standard as well such as the Parclo interchange, Ontario Tall Wall, etc. I always find merge lanes so tiny in the US compared to Ontarios which can be up to 300 meters long.

as for pavement quality, it depends on province and area and highway.

when you compare east coast or midwest US to Ontario, I find Ontario's roads are much better.

Quebec has the issue of way overbuilding their road network and having too much to maintain, getting behind. a lot of the smaller provinces, especially the really spread out ones such as Saskatchewan and Manitoba have issues, but the amount of road-kms they maintain to support such a small population is staggering.
Ontario's highways are built to much higher standards? Doubtful. The only highway in Ontario that even comes close to Detroit's I-696 is the 407 and thats because its a toll road.
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