daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old February 19th, 2014, 07:43 AM   #2661
Innsertnamehere
insertoronto
 
Innsertnamehere's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,959
Likes (Received): 680

The 407 is built to the same standards of all modern MTO projects. it was built by MTO after all, even if it is privately owned now.

350m merge lanes are the current standard, for all new and rebuilt highway interchanges.

cloverleafs are essentially eliminated, I think there are only 1 or 2 left in the province.

comparing that to when I drove down to florida in december, with the merge lanes being 100 meter max (often 0 exit merge length, you just turned in), diamond interchanges, etc. (I79, I77, I75, I4 and I95 were the interstates I drove on)


a good example of a new "non toll road" in Ontario is the highway 7 twinning in Ottawa. while not signed as a 400 series road, it is built as one. 370 meter merge lanes, parlcos on all interchanges, 30 meter medians, etc.
Innsertnamehere no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old February 19th, 2014, 07:55 AM   #2662
VoltAmps
Registered User
 
VoltAmps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 171
Likes (Received): 49

Ontario's merge lanes are comically long. Feels like I'm driving down a runway. I consider myself a good driver so I've never had a problem with shorter merge lanes.
VoltAmps no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 19th, 2014, 03:51 PM   #2663
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,241
Likes (Received): 779

Quote:
Originally Posted by keokiracer View Post
I meant crappy-er (is there an actual word for that? :P) roads. So more crap than European roads. Which doesn't mean they're all crap. Just means that the European ones are better.
That's what we pay taxes for (and a whole lot of other stuff, but that'd be off-topic)
"Crappier."
And I've seen pictures of roads in a country not far from you that would curl your hair. :-P
__________________
I didn't vote for him....

DRIVEN IN BEEN IN:
AL CA CT DE DC FL GA ID IL IN KY ME MD MA MI MN MO MT NH NJ NY NC ND OH OR PA RI SC SD TN UT VT VA WA WV WI WY ---
AB BC MB NB NS ON PE QC SK ---
A B CH D F GB I L NL

geogregor liked this post
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 19th, 2014, 03:54 PM   #2664
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,241
Likes (Received): 779

Quote:
Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere View Post
The 407 is built to the same standards of all modern MTO projects. it was built by MTO after all, even if it is privately owned now.

350m merge lanes are the current standard, for all new and rebuilt highway interchanges.

cloverleafs are essentially eliminated, I think there are only 1 or 2 left in the province.

comparing that to when I drove down to florida in december, with the merge lanes being 100 meter max (often 0 exit merge length, you just turned in), diamond interchanges, etc. (I79, I77, I75, I4 and I95 were the interstates I drove on)


a good example of a new "non toll road" in Ontario is the highway 7 twinning in Ottawa. while not signed as a 400 series road, it is built as one. 370 meter merge lanes, parlcos on all interchanges, 30 meter medians, etc.
Of course, to get from Toronto to any place past...Barrie? Huntsville? Parry Sound?...by freeway, you need to cross the border twice. To get from Winnipeg to any place at all by freeway you need to wait for one to be built.
__________________
I didn't vote for him....

DRIVEN IN BEEN IN:
AL CA CT DE DC FL GA ID IL IN KY ME MD MA MI MN MO MT NH NJ NY NC ND OH OR PA RI SC SD TN UT VT VA WA WV WI WY ---
AB BC MB NB NS ON PE QC SK ---
A B CH D F GB I L NL
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 19th, 2014, 05:07 PM   #2665
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,571
Likes (Received): 19362

Quote:
Originally Posted by hightower1 View Post
I would have thought that it would be more due to the fact that the US has 300 million people compared to Canadas 35 million people in roughly similar size land areas...
While the Canadian tax base is indeed much smaller than that of the United States, the situation should not be exaggerated, there are almost no roads more than 500 kilometers north of the U.S. border.

The northernmost area where there's something of a network of roads, as opposed to single routes is in the Peace River-Grande Prairie area in western Alberta, which is approximately 700 kilometers north of the U.S. border. This distance gradually reduces to the east, north of Minnesota (northwest Ontario) there are no significant roads farther than 150 km from the U.S. border. Even in Québec there are few roads more than 100 km north of Montréal.
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old February 19th, 2014, 05:22 PM   #2666
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,241
Likes (Received): 779

And seriously, rather than snarkily, I've always assumed the reason states like Montana and Wyoming have freeways and Manitoba and Saskatchewan don't is the Interstate network (and the federal funding that came with it). I don't think there's any reason Montana on its own would be able to afford better roads than Saskatchewan.

PS, to Chris's last post: Last time I checked, there was only one road of any sort crossing the Manitoba-Ontario border, forgetting about one or two back roads that end soon after they've crossed the line.
__________________
I didn't vote for him....

DRIVEN IN BEEN IN:
AL CA CT DE DC FL GA ID IL IN KY ME MD MA MI MN MO MT NH NJ NY NC ND OH OR PA RI SC SD TN UT VT VA WA WV WI WY ---
AB BC MB NB NS ON PE QC SK ---
A B CH D F GB I L NL
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 19th, 2014, 05:44 PM   #2667
keokiracer
Roadgeek from NL
 
keokiracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Halsteren (NL)
Posts: 3,672
Likes (Received): 2628

Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
"Crappier."
And I've seen pictures of roads in a country not far from you that would curl your hair. :-P
Ah, yes. Of course. Crappier
Belgium is a statistical outlier
keokiracer no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 19th, 2014, 06:00 PM   #2668
sonysnob
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: North York
Posts: 961
Likes (Received): 860

Quote:
Originally Posted by VoltAmps View Post
Ontario's highways are built to much higher standards? Doubtful. The only highway in Ontario that even comes close to Detroit's I-696 is the 407 and thats because its a toll road.
The 696 is a cherry-picked example. The 696 is a much better road compared to other roads in Metro Detroit as well, such as I-94 for example.

Besides, what sets 696 apart isn't so much its design standard, its the tunnels, which have more to do than the neighbourhoods it was built through than the design of the roadway.

The extension of the 401 through Windsor is being built a lot like 696, with its tunnel network.
__________________
Asphaltplanet.ca
sonysnob no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 19th, 2014, 06:03 PM   #2669
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,241
Likes (Received): 779

Quote:
Originally Posted by keokiracer View Post
Ah, yes. Of course. Crappier
Belgium is a statistical outlier
Belgium is exceptional. Outstanding.
Leve België/Vive la Belgique !
__________________
I didn't vote for him....

DRIVEN IN BEEN IN:
AL CA CT DE DC FL GA ID IL IN KY ME MD MA MI MN MO MT NH NJ NY NC ND OH OR PA RI SC SD TN UT VT VA WA WV WI WY ---
AB BC MB NB NS ON PE QC SK ---
A B CH D F GB I L NL
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 19th, 2014, 06:48 PM   #2670
Innsertnamehere
insertoronto
 
Innsertnamehere's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,959
Likes (Received): 680

Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
And seriously, rather than snarkily, I've always assumed the reason states like Montana and Wyoming have freeways and Manitoba and Saskatchewan don't is the Interstate network (and the federal funding that came with it). I don't think there's any reason Montana on its own would be able to afford better roads than Saskatchewan.

PS, to Chris's last post: Last time I checked, there was only one road of any sort crossing the Manitoba-Ontario border, forgetting about one or two back roads that end soon after they've crossed the line.
yep. if you want to drive across canada, you HAVE to drive along highway 17/11 east of Thunder Bay. it is literally the only road. its getting twinned now, but not at expressway standards as the traffic levels are so low. (around 3,000 AADT) it is often closed in winter due to bad snow storms and accidents, literally cutting the country in half. The main reason it is getting twinned is because it is the only road, so that if there is an accident one carriageway can be closed and the road can remain open. there literally are no possible detour routes.

Most people driving from Alberta to Ontario drive through the US anyway though, even if Canada had a cross country freeway it would still be faster because of how the great lakes are shaped.

Manitoba, saskatchewan, and alberta also have large networks of double carriageway roads with at grade intersections, which given their traffic levels is generally more than enough to let people fly down them at 130-140km/h. They only really face issues when going through larger towns, as they will often have a couple of stop lights there.

Last edited by Innsertnamehere; February 19th, 2014 at 06:54 PM.
Innsertnamehere no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 19th, 2014, 07:31 PM   #2671
Botev1912
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 988
Likes (Received): 575

Comparing British Columbia to Washington State, I think WA has much more roads, more lanes, less traffic (even in Seattle compared to Vancouver). The surface of British Columbia roads seems a little smoother and quieter maybe because there are a lot of trucks in WA and also studded tires are allowed. But the capacity of the road network in BC is very low. The highways are more curvy and narrow, and the speed limits are lower too.

Last edited by Botev1912; February 19th, 2014 at 07:37 PM.
Botev1912 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 19th, 2014, 08:52 PM   #2672
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,241
Likes (Received): 779

Quote:
Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere View Post
yep. if you want to drive across canada, you HAVE to drive along highway 17/11 east of Thunder Bay. it is literally the only road. its getting twinned now, but not at expressway standards as the traffic levels are so low. (around 3,000 AADT) it is often closed in winter due to bad snow storms and accidents, literally cutting the country in half. The main reason it is getting twinned is because it is the only road, so that if there is an accident one carriageway can be closed and the road can remain open. there literally are no possible detour routes.

Most people driving from Alberta to Ontario drive through the US anyway though, even if Canada had a cross country freeway it would still be faster because of how the great lakes are shaped.

Manitoba, saskatchewan, and alberta also have large networks of double carriageway roads with at grade intersections, which given their traffic levels is generally more than enough to let people fly down them at 130-140km/h. They only really face issues when going through larger towns, as they will often have a couple of stop lights there.
Does the distance saved by dipping south of the border offset the inconvenience of passing through customs twice?

And if you're coming from any place from Ottawa east, trying to get to Thunder Bay or points west, I'd think a route that takes you through Chicago is longer than an all-Canadian one.

-----

Serious question: how does highway funding in Canada work? Is it provincial except for the Trans-Canada or...? Has a federally-funded national highway network, freeway or otherwise, ever been considered (assuming such doesn't exist already, and if the TCH is it has there been consideration of something more extensive, something that would include southern Ontario's freeways and more routes in the West and so on....)?
__________________
I didn't vote for him....

DRIVEN IN BEEN IN:
AL CA CT DE DC FL GA ID IL IN KY ME MD MA MI MN MO MT NH NJ NY NC ND OH OR PA RI SC SD TN UT VT VA WA WV WI WY ---
AB BC MB NB NS ON PE QC SK ---
A B CH D F GB I L NL
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 20th, 2014, 01:28 AM   #2673
Kanadzie
Registered User
 
Kanadzie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,371
Likes (Received): 746

Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
Serious question: how does highway funding in Canada work? Is it provincial except for the Trans-Canada or...? Has a federally-funded national highway network, freeway or otherwise, ever been considered (assuming such doesn't exist already, and if the TCH is it has there been consideration of something more extensive, something that would include southern Ontario's freeways and more routes in the West and so on....)?
it's piecemeal. The original TCH (1962) was I think either 50/50 or 90 / 10 federal / provincial (it was probably 50 / 50 on roads around urban areas). The roads themselves are all provincial property just like US states own the Interstates.

The exception is stuff like the Champlain Bridge and associated roadways owned and maintained by federal, or the Mercier bridge where the federal owns and maintains the southern half of the two bridges and the province has the rest

Every so often there is a push for a road improvement and often the federal will contribute some money, especially if it is TCH but often even if it isn't.

There was talk in 1990's about making a 4 lane TCH from end to end, at the federal and also provincial levels. It ended up getting the terrible terrible road through New Brunswick to the excellent freeway it is today, and the Prairie provinces aggressively started twinning programs which have basically been completed. The only crappy TCH parts left is 11/17 in Northern Ontario and that crappy part in BC between Alberta and Kamloops. In 1994 for example there was probably only 4-lane road from the middle of Ottawa to Riviere du Loup and the useless city street sections in some western areas (the worst being Calgary which remains as it always was) and of course the Coquihalla in BC (opened 1986 as toll road) and the Hwy 1 from the end of the Coke to Vancouver. So improvements have been forthcoming...

Federal hwy network like the Interstates has never been seriously floated aside from TCH, but realistically because of Canadian geography it doesn't make sense either. The population centers are close to the border, and the provinces are very tall. So any north south route is basically a single province's road with a few exceptions.

Ontario's road design on newer roads has really long merge lanes, and people still can't figure out how to merge on them. And there is some anti-cloverleaf fatwa at the MTO which is inexplicable. Ontario made some really terrible cloverleafs in the 1950's but it works fine when done right in right place...
__________________

Penn's Woods liked this post

Last edited by Kanadzie; February 20th, 2014 at 01:33 AM.
Kanadzie no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 20th, 2014, 05:05 AM   #2674
ssiguy2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: White Rock BC
Posts: 5,404
Likes (Received): 856

Some of BC merge lanes are ridiculously short, I believe they have the smallest minimum in the country.

BC rural roads are generally kept in good repair and offer smooth and beautiful rides but not fast ones. Even sections that are slowing being widened are often only hill climbing lanes, sort of ridiculous.
ssiguy2 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 20th, 2014, 05:17 AM   #2675
Kanadzie
Registered User
 
Kanadzie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,371
Likes (Received): 746

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy2 View Post
Some of BC merge lanes are ridiculously short, I believe they have the smallest minimum in the country.

BC rural roads are generally kept in good repair and offer smooth and beautiful rides but not fast ones. Even sections that are slowing being widened are often only hill climbing lanes, sort of ridiculous.
Or inexplicable undivided 4 lane setups. If it's too expensive blasting the rock, okay don't have a big median but at least give us a jersey barrier
Kanadzie no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 20th, 2014, 08:32 AM   #2676
Innsertnamehere
insertoronto
 
Innsertnamehere's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,959
Likes (Received): 680

highways are mostly built by the provinces, but I sort of like that as highway and traffic design changes so drastically across the country.

Ontario is generally (always) left out to itself to fund its roads, I honestly can't remember the last time i remember hearing about federal funding other than for an international border crossing. Smaller provinces that don't have the tax base of 13 million people however tend to get piecemeal subsidies. In a few years you will finally be able to drive from Windsor to Halifax entirely on freeways, largely due to federal twinning funding. The only parts left to twin is northern ontario which for both political (harper despises ontario, especially NDP northern Ontario, from the bottom of his heart) and economic reasons (huge stretch of road with very little traffic) the province itself has started to twin small sections of it, but there are still probably close to 2,000km of untwinned TCH there. The other remaining part is through the rocky mountains, which while it has a higher traffic count, is extremely expensive to upgrade due to the terrain.
__________________

Penn's Woods liked this post
Innsertnamehere no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 20th, 2014, 03:59 PM   #2677
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,241
Likes (Received): 779

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanadzie View Post
....
Federal hwy network like the Interstates has never been seriously floated aside from TCH, but realistically because of Canadian geography it doesn't make sense either. The population centers are close to the border, and the provinces are very tall. So any north south route is basically a single province's road with a few exceptions.
....
Thanks for this. As to the particular point above, I thought of that, but on the other hand Interstates like 27 and 96 (and the ones in Hawaii) are really intra-state, but still included in the system....
__________________
I didn't vote for him....

DRIVEN IN BEEN IN:
AL CA CT DE DC FL GA ID IL IN KY ME MD MA MI MN MO MT NH NJ NY NC ND OH OR PA RI SC SD TN UT VT VA WA WV WI WY ---
AB BC MB NB NS ON PE QC SK ---
A B CH D F GB I L NL
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 20th, 2014, 04:00 PM   #2678
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,241
Likes (Received): 779

Quote:
Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere View Post
highways are mostly built by the provinces, but I sort of like that as highway and traffic design changes so drastically across the country.

Ontario is generally (always) left out to itself to fund its roads, I honestly can't remember the last time i remember hearing about federal funding other than for an international border crossing. Smaller provinces that don't have the tax base of 13 million people however tend to get piecemeal subsidies. In a few years you will finally be able to drive from Windsor to Halifax entirely on freeways, largely due to federal twinning funding. The only parts left to twin is northern ontario which for both political (harper despises ontario, especially NDP northern Ontario, from the bottom of his heart) and economic reasons (huge stretch of road with very little traffic) the province itself has started to twin small sections of it, but there are still probably close to 2,000km of untwinned TCH there. The other remaining part is through the rocky mountains, which while it has a higher traffic count, is extremely expensive to upgrade due to the terrain.
Where's Harper from? I thought he was an ex-Premier of Ontario, or am I thinking of someone else? (And how far can you get in Canadian politics if you despise Ontario....?)
__________________
I didn't vote for him....

DRIVEN IN BEEN IN:
AL CA CT DE DC FL GA ID IL IN KY ME MD MA MI MN MO MT NH NJ NY NC ND OH OR PA RI SC SD TN UT VT VA WA WV WI WY ---
AB BC MB NB NS ON PE QC SK ---
A B CH D F GB I L NL
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 20th, 2014, 05:54 PM   #2679
geogregor
Registered User
 
geogregor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: London
Posts: 15,487
Likes (Received): 19123

Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
Where's Harper from? I thought he was an ex-Premier of Ontario, or am I thinking of someone else? (And how far can you get in Canadian politics if you despise Ontario....?)
I think he is from Alberta.
geogregor no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 20th, 2014, 06:01 PM   #2680
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,571
Likes (Received): 19362

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Harper Wikipedia is your friend

Born and raised in Toronto, long-time MP from Calgary.
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
autoroute, highways, ontario, toronto

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 10:22 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium