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Old April 23rd, 2014, 12:49 AM   #2721
Haljackey
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I have never driven the 401 through Toronto in it's entirety. I thought Easter Sunday would be a nice day for a drive as traffic volumes on the road would be lighter. It was still very busy but I was able to record the entire stretch over 6 lanes!

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Old April 25th, 2014, 01:38 AM   #2722
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so the Liberals are pretty adamant about the complete twinning of highway 17 in Ontario, that is almost 2,000km of highway. From my understanding some of it would be built to freeway standards and some not, but I think much of it really isn't needed. portions of the road drop below 2,000 AADT. around 1,000km is above 5,000 and could probably be excusable for twinning, but there are still a lot of sections that would probably be better off by introducing a constant passing lane (3 lanes wide at all times, alternating which direction gets the passing lane), banning passing by overtaking, and introducing rumble strips between direction of travel. Sections such as Sault Ste. Marie to Thunder Bay go through extremely difficult terrain and have AADT levels hovering around the 2,000 mark.. I just don't see it being worth it. I say twin it from Ottawa to Deep River, Mattawa to Sault Ste. Marie, Nipigon to the 11/17 split west of Thunder Bay, and Dryden to the Manitoba border. Do some smaller twinnings in the North as well such as 61 from Thunder Bay to the US border (and push the US for an I-35 extension), an I-75 connector in Sault Ste. Marie, 101 outside of Timmins, and 11 from Latchford to highway 112.
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Old April 25th, 2014, 10:20 AM   #2723
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I follow this Canadian trucker on Youtube who is always complaining about the untwinned Trans-Canada in Northern Ontario. Apparently the road is frequently blocked due to accidents.
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Old April 26th, 2014, 12:52 AM   #2724
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the AADT readings are screwy because of the summer peak.

Driving on the road frankly sucks and it has a lot of deadly accidents. 3 lane roads always end up dangerous, and rumble strips are (as far as I know) shown more dangerous than none at all on undivided roads... they put that shit on the western part of the road and it's a PITA to pass.

And passing restriction is one of the dangerous parts of the road, it's hard to get passing opportunities, so you need to pass in a dangerous way often. Especially now that trucks have the 105 km/h speed limiter, it's worse than before.

Probably a realistic way forward would be some 4 lane bypasses of the towns to give a dual savings of passing opportunity and save the traffic, IMO.

Banning overtaking would just be insane, people would end up crashing into trees just to suicide after a couple hours of that living hell
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Old April 26th, 2014, 07:43 AM   #2725
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I thought the speed limiters were removed because they were deemed unconstitutional?

If you had a passing lane every 2-3km, you wouldn't get frustrated with not being able to pass. You would be behind them for a minute or two at most.
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Old April 26th, 2014, 11:14 AM   #2726
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere View Post
I thought the speed limiters were removed because they were deemed unconstitutional?
The speed limiters became mandatory in 2009, and then deemed unconstitutional in 2012, but I haven't read about what happened after that.

The MTO still has the speed limit section on its website:
http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/tru...cklimits.shtml
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Old April 28th, 2014, 12:04 AM   #2727
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Construction photos of the 407 east highway project just outside of Toronto. When completed in 2020 (with two phased openings in 2015 and 2017), it will be a 44km mainline running from the current 407 terminus to highway 35, with two 10km connector highways down to the 401 between Ajax and Whitby and just east of Oshawa. The first phase (the part opening in 2015) has been under construction for a while now, and the second phase (opening in 2017 and 2020) had its contract awarded last week. This will complete the 407, a tolled bypass of Toronto that has been planned since the 1960's. The first portion, a 105km mainline was completed in 1997.



photos by Sonysnob at SSP


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Old April 28th, 2014, 12:11 AM   #2728
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The 404 extension to the north of Toronto. Scheduled to open in September, the highway is fast approaching completion. a 14km long project, it will be paved with concrete which is a rare feature in Ontario highways. It is notable however that most new highways in the last few years around the GTA have been concrete.




Images by Sonysnob at SSP



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Old April 28th, 2014, 12:12 AM   #2729
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it's so curious to see both EDL and WDL being built so close, especially considering the paucity of the GTA's freeway network.

404 extension is also nice, it also lives up to its name (404 yeggog code since it goes nowhere ) I wonder when they will make a nice link to Hwy 400...
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Old April 28th, 2014, 12:17 AM   #2730
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They won't build a connection to highway 400, at least not a direct one
The highway would then turn east toward highway 12
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Old April 28th, 2014, 12:18 AM   #2731
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the 404 is actually the third busiest highway in the city, reaching just over 300,000 AADT just to the north of the 401 (its behind the 401 and the 427), on an 8+2 HOV highway. its above 20,000 AADT for its entire length.

There is also a planned "Bradford bypass" that will connect the two highways, but my understanding is that any further extensions in the area are currently off the table to discourage sprawl. The only possible future expansion at this point is a widening of the 400, MTO wants to see it 8+2 HOV all the way to Barrie.

Last edited by Innsertnamehere; April 28th, 2014 at 03:48 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old May 1st, 2014, 09:13 PM   #2732
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Interesting comparison between Canadian and US interchange sizes by Sonysnob at SSP

Quote:
Originally Posted by sonysnob View Post
There are a number of reasons why we don't built Texas-esque style interchanges in Canada.

As others have mentioned, the largest reason is probably winter maintenance. Structures require a lot more preventive maintenance in northern climates than they do southern. Not only does this maintenance carry significant monetary costs, but it also has significant traffic impacts. Look at the delays that have been caused just from the single lane closure of the ramp from the eastbound 401 to the northbound 427.

For Houston in particular, Houston is quite flat, so it is impractical to bring large quantities of earth in for fill, as there is simply not a lot of land that they can borrow from. Trucking earth is an expensive proposition. You can see this in Ontario as well, the grade separations along the 417 between Ottawa and Cassleman tend to be elongated in order to minimize the amount of fill that was brought in for the bridge approaches.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.34937...88jxMMsg3w!2e0

The final reason is drivability. In places where the ground doesn't freeze you can build sharper curves with greater super-elevation than you can anywhere in Canada. In Texas, for example, curves can be super-elevated upwards of 8%, where as here we generally limit ourselves to using less than 6. Furthermore there is also the reality, that bridge decks will freeze before other sections of road, which is further incentive not to build long bridges with sharp curves.

One thing that should be noted, is that despite their massive appearance, interchanges in Texas often have a much smaller footprint than their Canadian counterparts:

High 5 interchange in Dallas:


400 and 407, same scale:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...90293&page=127
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Old May 1st, 2014, 09:21 PM   #2733
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Stacks generally have the smallest footprint over other interchange types like turbines and full cloverleafs (with C/D lanes and decent designed loops).

Toronto's freeway network is incredibly busy. There are no freeways with less than 100,000 vehicles per day within the built-up area. The interchanges too are huge, especially the 401/427 and 401/403/410 interchanges.

I'm wondering about the 401/404/DVP interchange. It doesn't look too well-designed for the very high traffic counts that occur there.
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Old May 1st, 2014, 10:47 PM   #2734
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All the 401 major interchanges in the Toronto area have some kind of design flaw:

(from west to east)

The 407ETR interchange is fine right now, but the proposed extension of the 401's collector-express system through Mississauga west to Milton cannot fit under this interchange as the overpasses are not long enough.
-Replacing the overpasses is not a popular idea as they are relatively new and the construction period will cause delays on the ETR, something the operators are protesting. An idea is to merge the collector and express lanes together through the interchange before expanding again west of it. This will also provide a transfer point but also a lot of weaving.

The 403/410 interchange does not have connections from the 403NB to 401 WB or 401 EB to 403SB, but these connections were designed in mind when the interchange was built and are now planned.
-Another issue is that there are no connections from the 401 express lanes to the 410. This means anyone who wants to access the 410 has to use the collectors and backup can occur, especially on the EB collectors.

The 427 interchange represents the biggest bottleneck on the 401 as the road narrows from 18 to 8 through lanes. There is no easy way to fix/retrofit it either.

The 409 interchange is another choke point as this is where the collector-express starts/ends.
-It wouldn't be an impossible task to extend the C/E system from the 409 to the 427, having the collectors end as ramps to the 427.

The 400 interchange simply does not have the capacity to move the volume it handles well. It has been on the MTO's wish list for a long time to rebuild, but the cost and construction delays are a major factor why it isn't being done anytime soon.
-Like the 410, the 400 can only be accessed by the collector lanes (WB only though thankfully).

The 404/Don Valley Parkway interchange is particularly annoying for anyone who is going from the 404 to DVP, or vice versa. They are essentially staying on the same highway. There are only two lanes in each direction that actually carry through the interchange and can cause a lot of delays.
-There isn't really an easy fix but a the leader of the Ontario's Progressive Conservative (not currently in power) wants to widen the Don Valley Parkway, and I would assume this interchange would be expanded as part of this plan.
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Old May 2nd, 2014, 01:31 AM   #2735
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So in this planned phase of construction the 407 will link up with 115, is that right? Are there plans to eventually link up with 7/417 towards Ottawa?
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Old May 2nd, 2014, 01:45 AM   #2736
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I'm wondering about the 401/404/DVP interchange. It doesn't look too well-designed for the very high traffic counts that occur there.
It's funny, whenever I wake up in the GTA, all you hear is "four oh four don valley" maybe 10 or 20 times before you actually get awake, dressed and arrive at work, and I'm usually on the complete other side of town All you want to do is smash the alarm radio
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Old May 2nd, 2014, 02:03 AM   #2737
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BTW, there was talk recently about a 400 series highway roughly along the north shore of Lake Erie from Fort Eire, but where would it connect to the 401? Would it link directly to 402 or south of St. Thomas?
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Old May 2nd, 2014, 02:07 AM   #2738
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I'm wondering about the 401/404/DVP interchange. It doesn't look too well-designed for the very high traffic counts that occur there.
It's horrible, constant backups. The 404 goes from a 4+HOV highway to 2 lanes over the 401. More of the 404 traffic probably turns onto the 401 than goes onto the DVP, but still. There is some form of congestion at the interchange at almost all times of day. I usually only go through it on the GO bus, which gets to use the HOV lanes which save a bunch of time. Even then we still have to go through around half of it. Its painful to be sitting in traffic going southbound at 1pm.

bringing the express-collectors system past the 407 interchange is stupid anyway and isn't needed. maybe build out a 4+HOV system to Milton then a 3+HOV to Kitchener. the proposed HSR should remove a ton of pressure on the highway anyway.

Widening the DVP beyond adding HOV lanes (I'd be fine if you wanted to build a 3+HOV system to Don Mills) is stupid as well, but fixing that interchange should be done. Adding a single lane shouldn't be too big of an issue and it would fix the unnecessary issues mid day.

Last edited by Innsertnamehere; May 2nd, 2014 at 02:14 AM.
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Old May 2nd, 2014, 02:39 AM   #2739
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I see that most of the discussion in this thread is about Ontario roads.
However I have question about Autorute 85 towards the New Brunswick border. Is there any construction ongoing at the moment?

On the OpenStreetMap there are some sections marked as under construction with 2014 opening date.
Where can I find more information? Maybe some pictures?
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Old May 2nd, 2014, 02:46 AM   #2740
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The DVP could use major lane additions all the way along but it would be expensive. They really need to look at putting some kind of Gardiner - 401 link more east than the DVP like the dead "Scarborough Expwy". There was a proposal to run something along the hydro corridor instead, that would be interesting. The DVP has spectacular scenery but the traffic load is just soul destroying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by geogregor View Post
I see that most of the discussion in this thread is about Ontario roads.
However I have question about Autorute 85 towards the New Brunswick border. Is there any construction ongoing at the moment?

On the OpenStreetMap there are some sections marked as under construction with 2014 opening date.
Where can I find more information? Maybe some pictures?
On the website of the minster of Transports!
-> https://www.mtq.gouv.qc.ca/portal/pa...enagement_r185 (try google translate, they are too lazy to give us English )

I am not sure if there is much advancement other than some pieces put into use (like around Degelis) so far, there have been some delays and a new government (who will probably continue work, but it might go some time longer)
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