daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old May 2nd, 2014, 04:59 AM   #2741
Innsertnamehere
insertoronto
 
Innsertnamehere's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,959
Likes (Received): 680

all portions of the highway are currently under construction I believe. Once complete in 2015 you will be able to drive from Halifax to Windsor on a continuous freeway. Couple with some more major expansion of highway twinning in Northern Ontario, a huge portion of Trans Canada twinning will finally be complete.

there are talks of a mid peninsula highway as well, but it has been generally disregarded as not needed, with them instead deciding to try and move forward with some form of widening of the QEW and running a parallel high quality train service to divert travellers. A prominent provincial politician is promising to build it, but it runs through several extremely sensitive environmental areas and has been renounced as the exact opposite of a sort of highway we should be planning for in the province today.

Last edited by Innsertnamehere; May 2nd, 2014 at 05:06 AM.
Innsertnamehere no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old May 2nd, 2014, 05:13 AM   #2742
sonysnob
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: North York
Posts: 960
Likes (Received): 860

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Stacks generally have the smallest footprint over other interchange types like turbines and full cloverleafs (with C/D lanes and decent designed loops).

Toronto's freeway network is incredibly busy. There are no freeways with less than 100,000 vehicles per day within the built-up area. The interchanges too are huge, especially the 401/427 and 401/403/410 interchanges.

I'm wondering about the 401/404/DVP interchange. It doesn't look too well-designed for the very high traffic counts that occur there.
The 404/DVP interchange definitely handles way more traffic than it was ever intended to:


This is looking southbound from Finch Avenue on the 404, about 3km north of the 401/DVP interchange, during the PM peak period. (So this is reverse, inbound congestion).
__________________
Asphaltplanet.ca
sonysnob no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 2nd, 2014, 05:29 AM   #2743
Kanadzie
Registered User
 
Kanadzie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,371
Likes (Received): 746

Quote:
Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere View Post
all portions of the highway are currently under construction I believe. Once complete in 2015 you will be able to drive from Halifax to Windsor on a continuous freeway. Couple with some more major expansion of highway twinning in Northern Ontario, a huge portion of Trans Canada twinning will finally be complete.

there are talks of a mid peninsula highway as well, but it has been generally disregarded as not needed, with them instead deciding to try and move forward with some form of widening of the QEW and running a parallel high quality train service to divert travellers. A prominent provincial politician is promising to build it, but it runs through several extremely sensitive environmental areas and has been renounced as the exact opposite of a sort of highway we should be planning for in the province today.
I thought the reason for Mid-Pen was the environmentally sensitive bottom of escarpment (where QEW is) making widening harder than up on top?
Kanadzie no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 2nd, 2014, 05:47 AM   #2744
Innsertnamehere
insertoronto
 
Innsertnamehere's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,959
Likes (Received): 680

the problem with the mid pen is getting it through the Niagara Escarpment, which as you can see with the existing 403 is no easy feat. (it would have to travel through it in the same rough area that the 403 does today) The QEW doesn't go through the Niagara Escarpment, and therefor is less damaging of that.

There has been some very strong protection legislation introduced to protect the escarpment as well, making it extremely difficult to build. Mind you the politician who wants to build it also wants to repeal that legislation (as well as a whole bunch of other ones aimed at reducing sprawl and protecting the watersheds that feed the GTA), but still. Widening the QEW is a much more environmentally friendly option that has only slightly lower benefits.

regardless the QEW is far from being over capacity currently anyway, so it is a rather pointless discussion. Even in peak times traffic rarely slows down. (on the portion that the Mid Pen would effect, at least)
Innsertnamehere no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 2nd, 2014, 06:02 AM   #2745
sonysnob
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: North York
Posts: 960
Likes (Received): 860

Quote:
Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere View Post
regardless the QEW is far from being over capacity currently anyway, so it is a rather pointless discussion. Even in peak times traffic rarely slows down. (on the portion that the Mid Pen would effect, at least)
Drive to Niagara Falls on a weekend in the summer and tell me that the QEW isn't near capacity.

The MidPen itself doesn't really run through any environmentally sensitive areas through either Hamilton or Niagara. It's the proposed connection to either the 401 or 407 that has everybody up in arms, as any such connection would have to run through the Dundas Valley. Some sort of Hamilton bypass for the 403 has, however, been identified as an important transportation link by various studies commissioned from the government.

One of the objectives of the MidPen is to spur economic development into the southern portion of Niagara Region, an area that currently has an above average unemployment rate, and could use the investment. An offshoot from this is that some of the economic development spurred into the southern portion of the region might alleviate some of the development pressure along the QEW corridor that is continuing to threaten the fruit growing region.
__________________
Asphaltplanet.ca
sonysnob no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 2nd, 2014, 06:39 AM   #2746
Innsertnamehere
insertoronto
 
Innsertnamehere's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,959
Likes (Received): 680

if you build it without connecting it to the 407 or 401 it will do little other than encourage sprawl, (or as you put it, economic development) as it would connect no major routes. Most traffic would still have to use the QEW. widening the QEW to 4 lanes from the skyway out to the edges of Stoney Creek is probably the best solution, and a whole lot cheaper than a 100km new build highway.

Its the same thing with the proposed extension of the 427 to Barrie, simply widening the 400 is a much better solution.
Innsertnamehere no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 2nd, 2014, 01:01 PM   #2747
geogregor
Registered User
 
geogregor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: London
Posts: 15,485
Likes (Received): 19113

Quote:
Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere View Post
all portions of the highway are currently under construction I believe. Once complete in 2015 you will be able to drive from Halifax to Windsor on a continuous freeway. Couple with some more major expansion of highway twinning in Northern Ontario, a huge portion of Trans Canada twinning will finally be complete.

there are talks of a mid peninsula highway as well, but it has been generally disregarded as not needed, with them instead deciding to try and move forward with some form of widening of the QEW and running a parallel high quality train service to divert travellers. A prominent provincial politician is promising to build it, but it runs through several extremely sensitive environmental areas and has been renounced as the exact opposite of a sort of highway we should be planning for in the province today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanadzie View Post
The DVP could use major lane additions all the way along but it would be expensive. They really need to look at putting some kind of Gardiner - 401 link more east than the DVP like the dead "Scarborough Expwy". There was a proposal to run something along the hydro corridor instead, that would be interesting. The DVP has spectacular scenery but the traffic load is just soul destroying.



On the website of the minster of Transports!
-> https://www.mtq.gouv.qc.ca/portal/pa...enagement_r185 (try google translate, they are too lazy to give us English )

I am not sure if there is much advancement other than some pieces put into use (like around Degelis) so far, there have been some delays and a new government (who will probably continue work, but it might go some time longer)
Thanks guys.
I did check the minster of Transports website as well as did some other searches.
So it seem that all the missing stretches between Saint-Louis-du-Ha! Ha! (BTW what a fantastic name) and New Brunswick border are currently under construction and set to open no later than 2015.

However it still leaves 40km between Saint-Louis-du-Ha! Ha! and Saint Antonin.
Any ideas when this goes under construction? I think they have all the needed permits, all is needed is some cash. Terrain there doesn't look to be particularly challenging.
How about the land? Does the state (either feds or province) own the needed right of way or do they have to buy it from the private landowners?

Last edited by geogregor; May 3rd, 2014 at 03:33 PM.
geogregor está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old May 2nd, 2014, 03:42 PM   #2748
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,559
Likes (Received): 19352

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanadzie View Post
The DVP could use major lane additions all the way along but it would be expensive.
The freeways into the CBD of Toronto have interesting traffic flows. While it is often thought that traffic increases closer to the CBD, Toronto has the opposite, traffic counts drop at every exit closer to the CBD.

For example the DVP carries approximately 100,000 near the CBD, but gradually increases to 180,000 vpd at the 401 interchange. The same occurs at the Gardiner Expressway, which carries 112,000 vpd at Parliament, but gradually increases to 228,000 vpd at the QEW.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 2nd, 2014, 04:19 PM   #2749
Haljackey
Registered User
 
Haljackey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 702
Likes (Received): 107

Quote:
Originally Posted by smokiboy View Post
BTW, there was talk recently about a 400 series highway roughly along the north shore of Lake Erie from Fort Eire, but where would it connect to the 401? Would it link directly to 402 or south of St. Thomas?
I don't believe so.

I think you may be getting this confused with the proposed Mid-Peninsula highway. This will run from Fort Erie run in the middle of the Niagara peninsula (hence it's name) to Hamilton before turning to encircle Greater Toronto. If ever built, it will likely be tolled.

As others have said, it is a very controversial project and it runs through some environmentally-sensitive areas and some of Canada's best farmland. The Ontario Progressive Conservative Party wants to built it to at least Hamilton, but again as others have said it would be much easier to widen the Queen Elizabeth Way instead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere View Post

bringing the express-collectors system past the 407 interchange is stupid anyway and isn't needed. maybe build out a 4+HOV system to Milton then a 3+HOV to Kitchener. the proposed HSR should remove a ton of pressure on the highway anyway.
I agree. Having them start at the 407ETR interchange is a good place, with a 8+2HOV cross section running from the 407ETR to Highway 8 in Kitchener.
-Through Milton, you could have a short collector-distributor cross section for local traffic but that is a little overkill in my opinion.
__________________
My Twitter

My Simcity Stuff

Last edited by Haljackey; May 2nd, 2014 at 04:24 PM.
Haljackey no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 2nd, 2014, 04:41 PM   #2750
Innsertnamehere
insertoronto
 
Innsertnamehere's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,959
Likes (Received): 680

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The freeways into the CBD of Toronto have interesting traffic flows. While it is often thought that traffic increases closer to the CBD, Toronto has the opposite, traffic counts drop at every exit closer to the CBD.

For example the DVP carries approximately 100,000 near the CBD, but gradually increases to 180,000 vpd at the 401 interchange. The same occurs at the Gardiner Expressway, which carries 112,000 vpd at Parliament, but gradually increases to 228,000 vpd at the QEW.
its because the vast majority of trips made into the downtown are on transit, there isn't much demand for car based access. There is much more demand for exiting the Downtown however, as there are lots of people living downtown but working in the suburbs where there are very weak transit connections, necessitating car trips. "counter peak" is just as bad if not worse than peak directions feeding into downtown because of this.

There is also lots of car based office space along the Northern portion of the DVP, after Eglinton the highway essentially becomes an express route into downtown, where transit modal shares jump dramatically. The demand to access those northern interchanges to get to the employment and suburban residential areas is higher than demand to get downtown due to the much worse modal splits.
Innsertnamehere no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 3rd, 2014, 09:13 PM   #2751
Kanadzie
Registered User
 
Kanadzie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,371
Likes (Received): 746

Thinking of the QEW, I don't know why they have that screwy service road design, especially past the skyway where they go under the minor overpasses. It would seem they could change them to 1-way service roads passing under all interchanges somewhat like the service roads in Quebec (kind of cheap-bastard collector-express system) and get a huge boost in capacity for very little asphalt.

The road needs major capacity increases though, all the way to Niagara Region it is farked every day, and the rest is basically at capacity while the GTA keeps growing very rapidly, it's the kind of time where real solutions need to be planned for (like the 407 was in like the 1970's at least)

Quote:
Originally Posted by geogregor View Post
Thanks guys.
I did check the minster of Transports website as well as did some other searches.
So it seem that all the missing stretches between Saint-Louis-du-Ha! Ha! (BTW what a fantastic name) and New Brunswick border are currently under construction and set to open no later than 2015.

However it still leaves 40km between Saint-Louis-du-Ha! Ha! and Saint Antonin.
Any ideas when this goes under construction? I think they have all the needed permits, all is needed is some cash. Terrain there doesn't look to be particularly challenging.
How about the land? Does the state (either feds or province) own the needed right of way or do they have to buy it from the private landowners?
I think most land is provincially owned but they have had to buy private land as well. For some reason they are trying very hard to keep as much of the original R-185 (old name before 1980's - Route 2) corridor, probably because of the "environmental impact", so there are some extra costs for land and more complicated designs to keep less ROW.

I'm not sure when they're going to start building a new section. Right now there are a lot of problems, as you say:
1. Province has no money, and what little there is, there is huge demand for road projects (very expensive collapsing interchanges in Montreal area for example)
2. New government has not revealed its priorities yet
3. There is currently a huge corruption scandal in Quebec in regards to mostly road construction ("Charbonneau Commission") and nobody wants to issue contracts right now...

Last edited by Kanadzie; May 3rd, 2014 at 09:22 PM.
Kanadzie no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 3rd, 2014, 09:43 PM   #2752
Innsertnamehere
insertoronto
 
Innsertnamehere's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,959
Likes (Received): 680

my understanding is that A-85 will be done to the New Brunswick border by late 2015..
Innsertnamehere no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 4th, 2014, 02:52 PM   #2753
geogregor
Registered User
 
geogregor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: London
Posts: 15,485
Likes (Received): 19113

Quote:
Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere View Post
my understanding is that A-85 will be done to the New Brunswick border by late 2015..
If that is the case there should be already movement on the stretch between Saint-Louis-du-Ha! Ha! and Saint Antonin.
I couldn't find any info about construction starting on that bit.

Oh, and about this collapsing interchanges in Montreal, did works started already?
geogregor está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old May 4th, 2014, 06:55 PM   #2754
Kanadzie
Registered User
 
Kanadzie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,371
Likes (Received): 746

in regards to Turcot interchange, there's constant work (24 h more or less) to keep the interchange from falling down, and some light earthworks for the new one, and one overpass in middle of nowhere completed (should be connected to a road in 2017 or so)
Kanadzie no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 5th, 2014, 08:12 PM   #2755
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,559
Likes (Received): 19352

Regina Bypass

Governments of Canada and Saskatchewan Contribute up to $200 Million to the Completion of the Regina Bypass Project

On behalf of Finance Minister Joe Oliver, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food and Member of Parliament for Battlefords–Lloydminster Gerry Ritz today announced the Government of Canada’s investment of up to $200 million in a public-private partnership (P3) to support the construction of the Regina Bypass. The Minister was joined at the event by the Honourable Don McMorris, Minister of Highways and Infrastructure and Minister Responsible for SaskBuilds for the Province of Saskatchewan.

The Bypass plan will feature new roads, service roads and overpasses that will make travelling around Regina faster and safer. By using a P3 model, the Regina Bypass is anticipated to take only three-and-a-half years to construct, with priority components opening in advance of the full bypass completion. The use of the P3 model will also improve cost-effectiveness, ensure timely completion, provide budget certainty, and allow scope for private sector innovation.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 5th, 2014, 08:28 PM   #2756
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,559
Likes (Received): 19352

Detroit - Windsor Bridge

Why Detroit-Windsor bridge could become Canada’s white elephant

At issue is the long-planned, and even longer-discussed, new bridge linking Windsor and Detroit – one of the busiest border crossings in the world. The whole project is slated to cost $3.4-billion.

But all of it – the span, a Canadian customs plaza and highway links on both sides of the border – could become the largest white elephant in Canadian history.
Whole article: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...ticle18454586/

I have my doubts whether this project is feasible. The cost is too high in comparison to the benefits. I've heard that truckers prefer the border crossing at Sarnia.

The Ambassador Bridge is not particularly busy with approximately 20,000 vehicles per day. The main problem appears to be the adjacent route through Windsor. There is no freeway connecting to the Ambassador Bridge in Windsor. But $ 3.4 billion is a very expensive bypass.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 5th, 2014, 08:51 PM   #2757
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,241
Likes (Received): 779

My guess (just a guess) is that truckers prefer the Sarnia crossing because of the lack of freeways in Windsor. This new bypass is supposed to do what, connect the 401 to I-75 south of Detroit? That's not useless at all for people who are heading south or even southwest rather than west....

(And did you forget about the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel? I'd think the traffic counts for that as well as the Ambassador would be more relevant than the Ambassador alone.)
__________________
I didn't vote for him....

DRIVEN IN BEEN IN:
AL CA CT DE DC FL GA ID IL IN KY ME MD MA MI MN MO MT NH NJ NY NC ND OH OR PA RI SC SD TN UT VT VA WA WV WI WY ---
AB BC MB NB NS ON PE QC SK ---
A B CH D F GB I L NL
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 5th, 2014, 09:06 PM   #2758
Haljackey
Registered User
 
Haljackey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 702
Likes (Received): 107

The Windsor-Essex Parkway / Right Honourable Herb Gray Parkway / 401 extension through Windsor is Ontario's most expensive highway project ever. They would have not have built this if there wasn't a reason to (or would they ).

If the new bridge is ultimately cancelled (which I doubt because Canada is paying 100% for the bridge, but gets 100% of the toll revenue to help pay for it), then that will be one of the most expensive roads to nowhere in human history.

---

The other thing is politics. The Ambassador bridge is privately owned by a man many people and politicians hate. This new bridge will be owned by the government and is a big 'screw you' to him.
__________________
My Twitter

My Simcity Stuff
Haljackey no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 5th, 2014, 09:10 PM   #2759
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,559
Likes (Received): 19352

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haljackey View Post
Ontario's most expensive highway project ever.
Claims like that are often made in the media, but have little meaning because they compare unadjusted costs. You can't compare the cost of a project today with a project in the 1960s.

Furthermore, the cost of PPP projects, or "P3s" cannot be compared to traditional funding because they are often long-term contracts, sometimes as much as 30 years of maintenance, so the contract values are much larger than before. It's like comparing the cost of a new car alone to the cost of a car, plus maintenance, fuel and taxes over a 10-year period.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 6th, 2014, 01:19 AM   #2760
Innsertnamehere
insertoronto
 
Innsertnamehere's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,959
Likes (Received): 680

The Windsor Essex parkway has insane design standards as well, with multiple "tunnels" and stuff that isn't really needed and rack up costs.

The $3.4 billion includes a new 9km 6 lane freeway, the new ~1.2km bridge (must be extremely tall to allow for shipping however), and the connection to the I-75. All with extensive urban expropriation on both sides of the border. Border plaza costs are insane as well because of the stupidly large amount of security theatre going on in them.. I mean the US plaza is going to cost a quarter of a billion dollars alone.
Innsertnamehere no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
autoroute, highways, ontario, toronto

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 10:25 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium