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Old October 29th, 2014, 04:45 AM   #3061
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What is so environmentally special about this region? They built the Red Hill Creek Expressway so I don't see how highway 6 would be a worse environmental issue than that.

Either way, even with those planned updates it would still be substandard given the amount of traffic and its importance as an intercity route. If it were in America I have no doubts it'd be a freeway.
I'm not sure that Hwy 6 is located in a particularly environmentally sensitive area, at least not north of Waterdown. The Niagara Escarpment is generally fairly sensitive, but is located a fair bit easterly in the vicinty of Guelph Line.

While it would certainly be nice if Hwy 6 was a freeway (or at least a RIRO expressway), it functions OK as it is now, with only a couple of rural traffic signals. An interchange at Hwy 5 will likely be constructed in the not to distant future as well as some kind of new connection between Hwy 6 and Parkside (or a new northern arterial road in Parkside's stead).

There have been studies to build a new freeway between Brantford and Cambridge to replace Hwy 24 but there is a lot of local opposition to any such new road.
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Old October 29th, 2014, 05:24 AM   #3062
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I'm not sure that Hwy 6 is located in a particularly environmentally sensitive area, at least not north of Waterdown. The Niagara Escarpment is generally fairly sensitive, but is located a fair bit easterly in the vicinty of Guelph Line.

While it would certainly be nice if Hwy 6 was a freeway (or at least a RIRO expressway), it functions OK as it is now, with only a couple of rural traffic signals. An interchange at Hwy 5 will likely be constructed in the not to distant future as well as some kind of new connection between Hwy 6 and Parkside (or a new northern arterial road in Parkside's stead).

There have been studies to build a new freeway between Brantford and Cambridge to replace Hwy 24 but there is a lot of local opposition to any such new road.
It is nearly always jammed in the 2-lane section, in rush hour it gets frequently jammed south of there too. I wouldn't say it functions okay. Also the speed limits can get pretty low and it is a haven for cops looking to nab drivers for some easy speeding tickets. Considering its status as an intercity route with an AADT well surpassing 30 000 at various points, I'd say it's pretty pathetic all things considered. I guess it functions well compared to highways in second and third world countries, but by North American standards it's pretty pathetic.

Highway 24 is an example of a case where the existing highway may not be perfect but it at least makes sense. The AADT is barely over 10 000.
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Old October 29th, 2014, 05:50 AM   #3063
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the 417 extension to Renfrew is not listed on the 5 year plan, I believe funding is only secured for the 5 or 6 km currently being done. Given the governments newfound push to try and get 17 upgraded quickly, I wouldn't be surprised if the extension is in next years 5 year plan, which is due any day now.

Highway 24 will probably just end up getting 4 laned once demand warrants.

Not sure about the enviromental concerns, but they ruled it out in the Niagara transport corridor study due to environmental concerns from what I remember. One the Morriston Bypass is constructed getting rid of the last 2 lane section and the highway 5 interchange is built, the highway should flow pretty smoothly for quite a long time.
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Old October 29th, 2014, 06:33 AM   #3064
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I'm not sure that Hwy 6 is located in a particularly environmentally sensitive area, at least not north of Waterdown. The Niagara Escarpment is generally fairly sensitive, but is located a fair bit easterly in the vicinty of Guelph Line.

While it would certainly be nice if Hwy 6 was a freeway (or at least a RIRO expressway), it functions OK as it is now, with only a couple of rural traffic signals. An interchange at Hwy 5 will likely be constructed in the not to distant future as well as some kind of new connection between Hwy 6 and Parkside (or a new northern arterial road in Parkside's stead).

There have been studies to build a new freeway between Brantford and Cambridge to replace Hwy 24 but there is a lot of local opposition to any such new road.


Hwy 6 between 403 and 401 runs entirely through the Provincially designated Greenbelt/Niagara Escarpment Biosphere. Hwy 8 runs through Greenbelt within Hamilton only. Once it crosses into Waterloo Region it's no longer designated. Hwy 24 has no restrictions as it avoids the Greenbelt altogether.

They probably don't want to encourage development within the Greenbelt. Along Hwy 6 there are no orange built-up areas north of Waterdown until you get to Morriston at the 401. The map is using 2001 data when identifying the built-up areas though.


As for numbering, it seems like they generally tried to number the freeway after whatever highway it mirrored or replaced. The 405 would have made more sense as the 408 as the old Hwy 8 used to run to the Queenston crossing from Hamilton. 405 should have gone to the 403. The 406 has no reasonably low number and was probably assigned whatever was available in the sequence. If the 403 had become the 405, then they could have given that number to the 406.

OK, so ideally, 403 => 405, 405 => 408, 406 =>403. That then frees up the 406 to be used between Hamilton and Kitchener-Waterloo via Hwy 6 and 7.
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Old October 29th, 2014, 07:49 AM   #3065
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Greenbelt isn't environmentally sensitive per se, its more for sprawl prevention. What you really need to focus on is the Niagara Escarpment protection area and the Oak Ridges Moraine act, both of which protect actually sensitive areas.

For highway naming, MTO has always been a bit hap-hazard. Recently they seem to want the 4 just to be added to the existing highways number (416 and 407), although originally it was simply the lowest available number. The 400 and 401 are like that , theoretically by modern practices they should be named the 411 and 402 given that they replaced highway 11 and highway 2. That said, the 427 is also a very old MTO highway, part of the original Toronto bypass constructed in the late 1950's, and it holds a replacement number, as it replaced highway 27.

In general there is no real reasoning behind highway naming when it comes to 400 series from my experience. The big issue right now is highway 7, as MTO is going to have 3 different sections of the highway at freeway standards in a few years and you have to question how they want to sign them given the complexities of a large portion already being operated by a private company under the 407 ETR brand. Its hard to name the other parts the 407, especially since they tend are pretty short stretches.

Last edited by Innsertnamehere; October 29th, 2014 at 07:55 AM.
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Old October 29th, 2014, 05:11 PM   #3066
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the 417 extension to Renfrew is not listed on the 5 year plan, I believe funding is only secured for the 5 or 6 km currently being done. Given the governments newfound push to try and get 17 upgraded quickly, I wouldn't be surprised if the extension is in next years 5 year plan, which is due any day now.

Highway 24 will probably just end up getting 4 laned once demand warrants.

Not sure about the enviromental concerns, but they ruled it out in the Niagara transport corridor study due to environmental concerns from what I remember. One the Morriston Bypass is constructed getting rid of the last 2 lane section and the highway 5 interchange is built, the highway should flow pretty smoothly for quite a long time.
It's about time for the 417 to be extended westward. I think it should go all the way to Deep River eventually but Renfrew is by far the most necessary leg. Given the combination of AADT over 12 000 and the fact that it is a trans-Canada highway route, it seems like a no brainer to me.

Being four laned uncontrolled access with no median would be sufficient for Highway 24 but not 6. Highway 6 is still substandard, even if with the Morriston bypass it would function smoothly enough that there aren't omnipresent traffic jams. A Morriston bypass would be the definition of a half measure. Eventually the AADT on 6 will grow to levels of 40 000 in parts (it is already at 34 000 in some areas), high enough that a freeway will be absolutely mandatory beyond any shadow of a doubt, so building a Morriston bypass will just be a waste of money because they will have to build a freeway in the long run regardless. The kind of rationale used to justify 6's present situation could've also been used to justify keeping highway 2 as the main route between Ancaster and Brantford. It was four lane uncontrolled access just like 6, and it had a similar AADT around the time the 403 extension was built.

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Hwy 6 between 403 and 401 runs entirely through the Provincially designated Greenbelt/Niagara Escarpment Biosphere.

They probably don't want to encourage development within the Greenbelt. Along Hwy 6 there are no orange built-up areas north of Waterdown until you get to Morriston at the 401. The map is using 2001 data when identifying the built-up areas though.
Highway 6 is an intercity highway, not a suburban commuter highway, so I doubt that making a freeway realignment would encourage development much. Those concerns would be more valid for northward extensions of the 427 and 410 into the greenbelt, but not so much here. Plus can't the government simply control this through zoning laws? I don't see why it would be out of their control to simply deny developers the right to build on this land.

There are some built up areas already though along or near highway 6. Carlisle, Freelton, Millgrove.

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Greenbelt isn't environmentally sensitive per se, its more for sprawl prevention. What you really need to focus on is the Niagara Escarpment protection area and the Oak Ridges Moraine act, both of which protect actually sensitive areas.
Highway 6 was already converted to a freeway over the escarpment, just north of the 403, so the "damage" is already done there, right?

Last edited by AbstractEntity; October 29th, 2014 at 05:19 PM.
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Old October 30th, 2014, 04:50 AM   #3067
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Hwy 6 South in Ontario approaching Clappison's Corner:

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Old October 30th, 2014, 07:40 PM   #3068
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Roundabout on Quebec Highway 141 at the A-10 interchange.
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Old October 31st, 2014, 04:39 PM   #3069
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Steep grade along Highway 108 in the eastern townships of Quebec.
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Old November 1st, 2014, 02:41 PM   #3070
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Ottawa has a horrible freeway network. Is there a plant to link 415 with 417 on the southern edge of the urban agglomeration, passing close to the airport and providing fast access to communities out there?
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Old November 1st, 2014, 03:03 PM   #3071
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Ottawa has a horrible freeway network. Is there a plant to link 415 with 417 on the southern edge of the urban agglomeration, passing close to the airport and providing fast access to communities out there?
I believe the MTO had the study of a south Ottawa freeway corridor on their backburner list. It's 416 you mean, not 415, btw

I agree a south Ottawa bypass is needed. Partly for people who live to the south of Ottawa in suburbs there but also as a bypass of Ottawa so people passing through don't need to take the 417 through the city centre.

Hunt Club Rd would make a perfect alignment but there is probably too much development along that corridor to convert it to a freeway. A freeway further south that would go to the south of the airport would be more feasible now.
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Old November 1st, 2014, 06:09 PM   #3072
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The QEW and Highway 420 interchange near Niagara Falls Ontario:
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Old November 1st, 2014, 09:36 PM   #3073
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Great Photo!

I'm curious how many people actually use the 420WB to QEW Fort Erie connection. You're essentially coming from the US going back to the US. Seems overbuilt to me to have a huge 2 lane flyover to handle this.

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Old November 1st, 2014, 10:53 PM   #3074
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Ottawa has a horrible freeway network. Is there a plant to link 415 with 417 on the southern edge of the urban agglomeration, passing close to the airport and providing fast access to communities out there?
That "southern edge" is the Ottawa Greenbelt, so it would be very easy to build on (government land) but politically difficult

It would be nice to just bypass the Queensway section of 417 through it, it would even be less km than the current 417 routing...

but Ottawa traffic isn't bad compared to other Canadian cities (especially Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal) and it flows decently well, it's a small town after all.
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Old November 1st, 2014, 10:59 PM   #3075
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^ I think it's pretty dead. I am sure that the loop ramp for motorists entering the highway from Dorchester Road could probably handle all of the traffic that the flyover currently handles without much difficultly.

The 60s and 70s were a different era in highway construction.
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Old November 1st, 2014, 11:18 PM   #3076
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What about any plans to complete Route 35 to the American border around Pike River. It is just a short sector that would allow an all-highway link between Montreal metro and Vermont (linking with I-89)
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Old November 1st, 2014, 11:22 PM   #3077
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it's under construction and the northern half opened about 2 weeks ago
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Old November 1st, 2014, 11:28 PM   #3078
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it's under construction and the northern half opened about 2 weeks ago
The northern half indeed opened a couple of weeks ago, but there is no construction ongoing south of the highway's current terminus at Hwy 133.
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Old November 2nd, 2014, 06:06 PM   #3079
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A40/440 interchange east of Quebec City.
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Old November 2nd, 2014, 06:28 PM   #3080
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That's the île d'Orléans in the background, isn't it? Beautiful area.
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