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Old January 11th, 2016, 09:24 PM   #3661
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yin_yang View Post
we don't. we have a lot of planes. often we have hundreds in the air at once. we have one road across because we are developed enough to be able to fly most of our goods over the land.
I wasn't trying to be snarky. I love Canada. (I was really just thinking out loud.)
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Old January 11th, 2016, 09:29 PM   #3662
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Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere View Post
There are two trans Canadian railroads, one for CP and one for CN. CP owns a bunch of tracks through the US though, and because of NAFTA, uses those as its mainline to western Canada, meaning its line across Northern Ontario is rather lightly used.

Interestingly, NAFTA essentially makes Canada and the US a single country for railroads. Regulations slightly differ, but there is 0 border control for freight traffic. It has resulted in CN and CP buying up a lot of smaller US railroads..

CN



CP



because of the same regulations (NAFTA), freight trucking doesn't pay imports to drive through the US. They just need their drivers to have passports, and must have certifications on their trucks to drive in the US.
So there are at least three rail routes between Thunder Bay and Winnipeg? And two between Thunder Bay and northeastern Ontario. No choke point on the rail network.

It's interesting, that's all. (And, yinyang, flying's not always practical or cost-effective. There are things other than freight that are trying to move between east and west, and sometimes over distances that are not always worth the hassle of flying.)
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Old January 11th, 2016, 09:31 PM   #3663
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Originally Posted by zaphod View Post
VIA rail should dispatch a locomotive and a single passenger car to the scene. Then stranded locals could be ferried across the parallel rail bridge until the problem fixed with the highway bridge.

Nipigon has a siding and a wye in its downtown so with a little shunting the equipment could clear the main for regular traffic on schedule and not interfere.
Nah, they can fly from East Nipigon to West Nipigon.
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Old January 11th, 2016, 09:41 PM   #3664
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Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
So there are at least three rail routes between Thunder Bay and Winnipeg? And two between Thunder Bay and northeastern Ontario. No choke point on the rail network.

It's interesting, that's all. (And, yinyang, flying's not always practical or cost-effective. There are things other than freight that are trying to move between east and west, and sometimes over distances that are not always worth the hassle of flying.)
CN lifted its trackage easterly from Thunder Bay to Longlac a few years ago, so there is now only one railway east of Thunder Bay (in addition to the one that runs north of Lake Nipigon).
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Old January 11th, 2016, 10:24 PM   #3665
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Just put a ton of weight on it, what could go wrong?

It seems a bit redneck, but it could work. Even concrete bridges are more flexible than one might think. The bridge deck may deform during the tensioning of the cables.

This is a recently built concrete cable-stayed bridge in the Netherlands. Look at the deck deformation after tensioning.
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Old January 11th, 2016, 11:12 PM   #3666
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Some highways in Western Canada.

Obviously they're not as magnificent as 20 lane highway back east, but still nice.

Icefield Parkway, Alberta


Icefield Parkway by Maria Luo, on Flickr


Rocky Montains, Canada by St James Gate, on Flickr

Highway 40, Alberta


Highway 40 from the lookout near Fitzsimmons Creek picnic area. by Ken Sparks, on Flickr


A great view to stop and savour on the way home yesterday from the lakes. by Thank you for visiting my page, on Flickr

David Thompson Highway, Alberta


David Thompson Highway by Heidi G, on Flickr

Sea to Sky Highway, British Columbia


Shannon Falls, Squamish, Porteau Cove all along the Sea to Sky Highway and the Pacific Ocean in British Columbia by David Rose, on Flickr


The Scenic Sound ~ Vancouver, BC by SeaSide Signs ~ Vancouver, BC, on Flickr

Yellowhead Highway, British Columbia


Scenery in Northwestern B.C. by LNG Canada, on Flickr
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Old January 12th, 2016, 12:33 AM   #3667
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
It seems a bit redneck, but it could work. Even concrete bridges are more flexible than one might think. The bridge deck may deform during the tensioning of the cables.

This is a recently built concrete cable-stayed bridge in the Netherlands. Look at the deck deformation after tensioning.
Many years ago when I was younger and thinner, I supervised the construction of this bridge as an inspector for the consulting company:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.38768...7i13312!8i6656

The bridge was constructed with a prefabricated deck that rests on a steel superstructure. The steel superstructure was installed first, then several pre-cast concrete deck segments were dropped in on top of it. I remember being somewhat surprised to see the steel deflect downwards once the concrete deck was hoisted into place. So much so that I tracked down a more senior member of the engineering staff to ask them about it. I was reassured that it is indeed normal for structural elements to deflect under loading conditions, and that I needn't worry. Looks like the bridge was still standing when the google-mobile drove by, so I guess they were right.
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Old January 12th, 2016, 01:23 AM   #3668
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This is a major transportation issue. Most impacted is local traffic, it means a detour around Lake Superior, unless there is some kind of winter road available north of the Nipigon Bridge. It's actually 100 kilometer shorter for long-distance traffic to go through the USA from Sudbury to Winnipeg. However, it appears that truckers don't like the the border issues. Apparently it's quite common that freight from Toronto to the prairies goes through Northern Ontario instead of through the U.S.
I am not sure it is so bad for local as opposed to long-distance traffic.
Local traffic can always just stay home.
The temperature in the area the day the failure happened was -28 *C, you can't sit in your car and wait for it to open, and there are not huge number of hotel rooms around.
Town of Nipigon opened up some municipal buildings for shelter...

Also important to note the requirement of passport to cross US border... if someone driving cross-country didn't take it... they are screwed

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
It seems a bit redneck, but it could work. Even concrete bridges are more flexible than one might think. The bridge deck may deform during the tensioning of the cables.
It is working... it's the official fix and the bridge is open now
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thunde...date-1.3398207
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Old January 12th, 2016, 01:47 AM   #3669
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They should close that gap with only one highway building a second one couple hundred km north.
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Old January 12th, 2016, 05:48 AM   #3670
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Old January 12th, 2016, 06:03 AM   #3671
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They should close that gap with only one highway building a second one couple hundred km north.
but there is nothing there
like really, nothing there

Canada should instead annex the land south shore of the Superior
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Old January 12th, 2016, 06:34 AM   #3672
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the idea behind the new bridge was that it would be a dual carriageway, and if one bridge failed, the other would still be there.. But they have only built one of the new bridges so far.. lol.

Building a new highway a few hundred km to the north would be literally pointless. What may be possible is a small connector road between Highway 11 and 585 north of Polly lake.. it would be about 8km of new road, a much smaller bridge, and about a 40km detour in case of an emergency closure. Could probably do it for $30 million or so.
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Old January 12th, 2016, 06:41 AM   #3673
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What about a road circumventing Lake Nipigon from the south (more or less, through Pine Portage) and then turning west to join route 17?

I also notice there is a railway north of this lake, wouldn't it be viable to build a parallel 2-lane highway there?
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Old January 12th, 2016, 06:48 AM   #3674
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Following that northern railway would be the most logical. But very long and surely not worth the money. The cost of land expropriation is essentially zero - but it is a lot of rock, mountain and lake up there. There is nothing flat and easy like in NL or even the Toronto area. It's truly magnificent and beautiful country to have a cottage, and reasonably priced. But... your office will be a 20 hour drive... if you are lucky :/ So we scrimp and try to get a shack in the Muskokas where the only water, its in the basement !

I wonder why they already closed off and plan to demolish the 1937 bridge before building the second bridge? Unless they want to use that section of the road approaches. But when I drove there in July, it seemed like they wanted to put everything north of the old bridge completely.

Toronto Sun is blaming the Spaniards (Ferrovial)
http://www.torontosun.com/2016/01/11...based-in-spain
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Old January 13th, 2016, 03:58 PM   #3675
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Well, you can't say the 407 doesn't deliver... It's entirely free-flow during the morning rush hour...

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Old January 13th, 2016, 08:33 PM   #3676
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^it always is! Whenever it starts to clog down a bit, they just add another lane. Its amazing, but I guess that is what you get for $0.35 a km..

It'll be interesting to see how the highway fares in the next few years now that parts of it are fully built out.. they can't add more lanes any more in many parts.
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Old January 13th, 2016, 08:37 PM   #3677
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As far as I know there is no traffic count data available for the 407, so it's a bit hard to judge due to the lack of statics.
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Old January 14th, 2016, 01:40 AM   #3678
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You can just rely on capitalism
The corridor is really quite large. The "wide" section that is built out, probably could take an extra lane on the shoulder, but if they demolished and rebuilt overpasses, easily could be 20 lanes or something crazy without really any expropriation... it sounds nuts, but they did the 401 rebuild in a similar way in the 1960's, and even the QEW Halton Region rebuild just a few years ago (many aging overpasses rebuilt completely)
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Old January 14th, 2016, 08:53 PM   #3679
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The Overlander Bridge in Kamloops, British Columbia.

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Old January 17th, 2016, 10:38 PM   #3680
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I did this a while ago, so apologies if I've posted it before.


Hwy 11 north of Barrie
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