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Old December 1st, 2016, 04:39 PM   #3981
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The 400 is finally getting the attention it so desperately needs. It's too bad they aren't building it as 10 lanes from the start..

Hopefully they widen it up to Highway 9 soon too.
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Old December 1st, 2016, 05:20 PM   #3982
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What's the ultimate plan for 400 between 401 and Barrie? I vaguely recall it being mentioned that the goal is to have it 10 lanes between the 401 and Barrie.
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Old December 1st, 2016, 06:11 PM   #3983
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Yup. MTO is currently doing a study to decide what to do through Barrie I believe, as they are thinking it might need 12 lanes long term.

Big changes are planned for the highway, but the highway is so substandard that it needs essentially total replacement to widen it. Thus MTO has been doing a large amount of bridge and interchange rebuilds along the highway to prep for it, -'d they are finally moving forward with the first part.
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Old December 1st, 2016, 07:04 PM   #3984
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12 lane e/c or just mainline lanes? I looked at the Southern Highways program, and based on that, and also as you mentioned, they have a ton of bridge replacements planned for 400 for the next few years and many under way already. I think all the bridge replacements they are doing along 400 are for a 10-lane cross section. If they're planning on 12 lanes then they will need to replace/rehab again fairly soon.
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Old December 1st, 2016, 07:13 PM   #3985
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cricket_Fan View Post
What's the ultimate plan for 400 between 401 and Barrie? I vaguely recall it being mentioned that the goal is to have it 10 lanes between the 401 and Barrie.
This is the website for the current study of Highway 400 from Highway 89 up to Crown Hill in Barrie.

http://www.highway400improvements89to11.com/

Draft design drawings are available here:
http://www.highway400improvements89t...ation-pic.html

If you look at some of the draft plans you can get an idea of some of the cross-sections proposed, but the general idea is a ten lane cross-section throughout Barrie.

Check page 9 of 22 for proposed cross-sections:
http://www.highway400improvements89t...y%20Panels.pdf
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Old December 1st, 2016, 07:47 PM   #3986
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It seems that the parclo at King Road (which was built around 2009 according to Google Earth historical imagery) is already built for eight lanes. 10 lanes with left shoulders don't seem to fit though.
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Old December 1st, 2016, 09:53 PM   #3987
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It's built for 10, but not paved for it. The extra lane would be placed on the outside of the highway, not the interior. They did build it entirely for the 8 lanes though, all it needs is paint right now. They are doing the same thing at Highway 9 right now.. that project was creating traffic hell this summer for cottage bound traffic to Muskoka on the weekend.
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Old December 2nd, 2016, 01:33 AM   #3988
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cricket_Fan View Post
12 lane e/c or just mainline lanes? I looked at the Southern Highways program, and based on that, and also as you mentioned, they have a ton of bridge replacements planned for 400 for the next few years and many under way already. I think all the bridge replacements they are doing along 400 are for a 10-lane cross section. If they're planning on 12 lanes then they will need to replace/rehab again fairly soon.
If MTO is thinking ahead, they could use overpasses that could be rebuilt for collector lanes if the need arises, like the 401/Mavis overpass built in 90's.
But then again, this is same agency that works like this:

Quote:
Would it surprise you to learn that newly laid highways are supposed to last for 15 years? Not your fault. They rarely do. Some of them last as little as five years, Lysyk found. Cracks often appear within one or two. The government paid $12 million to prematurely repair a section of Highway 403 that cost $23 million to pave in the first place, Lysyk found — including a bonus to the contractor for using good-quality asphalt, which it was supposed to do anyway. That was far from a unique case. The culprit? Bad asphalt.
(snip)
Contractors themselves are in charge of collecting asphalt samples, delivering them to a lab and reporting the results. To the shock of absolutely no one, some took liberties. In 2014, the report notes, a “whistleblower explained that the contractor would submit good samples for testing purposes but lay poor-quality asphalt on highways.” (It doesn’t exactly take Moriarty to get one over on this gang.)
This confirmed longstanding suspicions at the Ministry, who alerted its Forensic Investigation Team, which didn’t do anything. “When we met with the OPP, they told us that they thought the information provided by the whistleblower was credible,” Lysyk reports, “but they did not conduct an investigation as they were waiting for the Ministry to provide additional information if it wanted to start an investigation, which it did not.”
Good to see work going on the 400 but don't understand the interim 8-lane solution when it will be graded for 10, the traffic volume is basically already there. On 410 they are going to 10 lanes right away, so ??
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Old December 2nd, 2016, 05:11 PM   #3989
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QEW in 1940:



https://twitter.com/ONtransport
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Old December 5th, 2016, 01:42 AM   #3990
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Some new photos of Highway 401 through Cobourg. Work is ongoing to widen a short section of the highway to six lanes:















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Old December 5th, 2016, 02:07 AM   #3991
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Thanks for that last picture
the previous arrangement like around the summertime 2016 was just terrible, very tight, road falling apart... now looks decent
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Old December 8th, 2016, 04:38 AM   #3992
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Bridge rehab at the 401's widest segment (Dixie Road in Mississauga, Ontario).

Click for full size.


Via
https://www.flickr.com/photos/anotherangle/30136547891/
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Old December 8th, 2016, 07:40 PM   #3993
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^widest highway on the planet in terms of actual through lanes (as far as I know). I believe houston is planning one bigger, but it isn't built yet.
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Old December 8th, 2016, 07:57 PM   #3994
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Houston's claims are currently based on the Katy Freeway (I-10). However those claims include frontage roads which are typically not considered to be part of the freeway due to local driveway access and traffic signals. The Katy Freeway has 14 through lanes.
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Old December 8th, 2016, 08:38 PM   #3995
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The project I was talking about was the I-45 realignment around Downtown Houston, which will have I-45 through route with I-69 to the south and remove the existing I-45 portion of the downtown freeway loop. I believe they are planning something like 22 actual through lanes in that stretch (albeit short). That project is probably 10 years off still though, so in the mean time the 401 can continue to enjoy the title. The Houston project is actually a little scary to me, it is absolutely ridiculous to have 22 lanes next to a cities downtown core.
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Old December 8th, 2016, 08:58 PM   #3996
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On the other hand, another freeway circling around the downtown area will be removed in that plan. The U.S. freeway system is designed in such a way that a bypass or beltway actually has little benefit to through traffic, as the route via downtown is usually the shortest and fastest. Of course there are a number of exceptions (Washington, Boston) but that's generally the case. In rare cases, truck traffic is banned from the downtown route (Atlanta).

In Toronto, through traffic can avoid the CBD, the freeway system of Toronto is designed that almost no through traffic has to use the Gardiner and DVP. In fact, traffic volumes on the Gardiner and DVP actually decrease towards the CBD. Sure, there is a sizable amount of traffic near the CBD, but it's less than near the 401 and QEW/427.

In Toronto's case the 401 is heavily congested, but through traffic is priced off the 407 due to its high tolls.

Toronto's freeway system is a bit peculiar because nearly the whole system consists of very high volume freeways, somewhat similar to Los Angeles. There are almost no stretches of freeway with less than 100,000 vehicles per day in Toronto, except perhaps for the endpoint of the 410 and the link from the DVP to the Gardiner.
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Old December 8th, 2016, 10:36 PM   #3997
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^ This discussion reminds me of another conversation I had with someone comparing that autoroute system in Quebec to the 400-series highway system in Ontario. The person I was having a discussion with made (a somewhat correct) ascertain that Quebec's system is more comprehensive than Ontario's system, but of course the counter argument that I made is that Ontario's freeways are generally much wider than those in Quebec (A-15 has the only section of rural six lane freeway in the province).

The comparison between the freeway systems is somewhat difficult to do. Although Ontario is geographically more central in both Canada and North America than Quebec is, Ontario has relatively few land connections with it's neighbour to the south. This has meant that traffic is concentrated much more focally on a few major corridors rather than spread more evenly across the province.

Not the same as the point you were talking to above, but something that I think is interesting nonetheless.
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Old December 9th, 2016, 01:33 AM   #3998
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it gets even more interesting when you look at say Toronto vs Montreal

Montreal has more freeways than Toronto, but they are considerably lower capacity.
However, Toronto has a vastly larger network of decent arterial surface streets (mostly the original concession grid roads) that serve considerable amounts of intra-region traffic. Montreal's arterial road network, partly because of the island archipelago geography and the way the grid follows different baselines is practically useless for moving around, you want to go directly to the nearest freeway (partly because of absurdly bad traffic signal timing vs. the GTA)

Now of course, many of the "important" Montreal surface roads were turned into freeways, like Cote-de-Liesse (now A-520) and Decarie (A-15), to a less significant extent the Montreal-Toronto Boulevard becoming A-20 in the West Island, Montée Saint-Léonard becoming A-25, etc, whereas the 401/407/403 mostly follow fresh alignments... Quebec City has a similar situation.
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Old December 9th, 2016, 03:50 AM   #3999
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Montreal also has a larger amount of transit use per capita than Toronto, meaning less reliance on the road network in the first place.
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Old December 9th, 2016, 05:04 AM   #4000
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I think it is actually less in Montreal than Toronto, but both are quite high and comparable:
https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/nhs-enm/.../tbl1a-eng.cfm


Mind you, Montreal did go ahead and build a "downtown relief line" subway immediately instead of waiting to the point where the land appreciated too much and kvetching about it endlessly like TO.

Montreal also has a large advantage of being relatively circular and a smaller population than the GTA which just goes on forever. In Montreal, a 50 km drive will take you to almost any place from any other in the region. In TO you can't even get from Mississauga to Scarborough...
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