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Old March 15th, 2017, 01:31 AM   #4101
Kanadzie
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I always wondered about that road. They were studying it as part of the Mid-Pen, then the Liberals studied it and said, oh, Mid-Pen is not needed but this road is specifically
but it seems almost like it is the least-important part of it...
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Old March 15th, 2017, 02:12 AM   #4102
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^ Yeah, I don't get the excitement for the far eastern leg of the MidPen either. Both Welland, and Port Colborne could really use some new economic growth, but it doesn't seem to me like access to the QEW is really all that difficult as is. Certainly Hwy 3 is a good road that's already mostly four lanes already, and none of the regional roads are really all that inefficient.
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Old March 15th, 2017, 09:14 PM   #4103
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Cobequid Pass

The tolls at Cobequid Pass (Nova Scotia Highway 104) may be coming to an end in 2020, the media reports. When built in 1997, it was anticipated that the toll would be collected for 30 years until the debt has been paid off. Now that revenues are higher than forecasted, the Cobequid Pass may become de-tolled by 2020.

http://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/light-at-...cted-1.3323317

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Old March 15th, 2017, 10:54 PM   #4104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanadzie View Post
The 403 / 6 "north" interchange isn't really that bad though. Until the overpasses start dropping concrete Turcot style, how could any investment (considering we are talking millions) be justified?
I find the cultural aspect of this fascinating. In probably most of the US this kind of directional interchange with offside entries/exits is completely normal and no one bats an eyelid. But to my British eyes and it seems to Canadian ones, an offside entry/exit is a scarily substandard bit of infrastructure.

There's a similar thing going on with cloverleafs, which are a cardinal sin in the UK or California, but de rigueur in Germany or the Midwest.
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Old March 15th, 2017, 11:21 PM   #4105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryme Intrinseca View Post
I find the cultural aspect of this fascinating. In probably most of the US this kind of directional interchange with offside entries/exits is completely normal and no one bats an eyelid. But to my British eyes and it seems to Canadian ones, an offside entry/exit is a scarily substandard bit of infrastructure.

There's a similar thing going on with cloverleafs, which are a cardinal sin in the UK or California, but de rigueur in Germany or the Midwest.
^ I don't know if that's really a fair sentiment to make broad reaching cultural observations after reading a complaint about a single interchange.

The 6/403 interchange carries a heavy volume of traffic and isn't geometrically very forgiving. Opened in 1963, The 403/6 interchange is one of the oldest (if not the oldest) remaining freeway to freeway interchanges in Southern Ontario.

I don't hear the same complaints about the left exits and entrances for the 407 ramps at the Freeman interchange to the east, or about the 416/417 interchange in Ottawa either. Both of which are much better designed, even though they still feature left exits and entrances.
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Old March 15th, 2017, 11:57 PM   #4106
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That's why I said 'it seems'.
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Old March 16th, 2017, 12:21 AM   #4107
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I've always thought that the 402 should have been extended past London and gone to Welland/Ft.Erie. Running it further eastward it would travel between London and St,Thomas and continue roughly parallel to HWY#3 running thru to Alymer/Tilsonburg/Simcoe/Dehi and on to Welland.

It would relieve traffic on the 401 between the 402 & 403 thru Greater London, offer a vital alternative route to the truck overburdened 401, and serve communities that have no freeway service. It would also help spark development in a region of the province which is often overlooked.
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Old March 16th, 2017, 03:01 AM   #4108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryme Intrinseca View Post
I find the cultural aspect of this fascinating. In probably most of the US this kind of directional interchange with offside entries/exits is completely normal and no one bats an eyelid. But to my British eyes and it seems to Canadian ones, an offside entry/exit is a scarily substandard bit of infrastructure.

There's a similar thing going on with cloverleafs, which are a cardinal sin in the UK or California, but de rigueur in Germany or the Midwest.
I'm from the US and I'm the one that pointed out how substandard it looks...and its in Canada
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Old March 16th, 2017, 05:02 PM   #4109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VoltAmps View Post
I'm from the US and I'm the one that pointed out how substandard it looks...and its in Canada
As I say, familiarity with this kind of configuration would be regional within the US as well. I-64 alone has a dozen or so, e.g.:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@37.79...79.3966154,15z
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@38.27...88.9315383,15z
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@37.73...81.1936795,15z

But in some parts of the country you might never encounter one.

Last edited by Ryme Intrinseca; March 16th, 2017 at 05:27 PM.
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Old March 16th, 2017, 05:38 PM   #4110
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Yup. The US eastern seaboard generally has a lot older highways that are more substandard than those out west.
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Old March 16th, 2017, 05:46 PM   #4111
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In that aspect, the difference between the freeway systems of Montréal and Toronto is quite striking.
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Old March 16th, 2017, 10:36 PM   #4112
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Info about the Highway 427 extension north of Toronto:
http://urbantoronto.ca/news/2017/03/...ontract-signed



616 million to expand 4km of existing highway, and build 6.6km of new highway.

The extension is shorter than I hoped. I am hopeful it is designed for another potential extension in mind.
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Old March 17th, 2017, 01:22 AM   #4113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
In that aspect, the difference between the freeway systems of Montréal and Toronto is quite striking.
It's valid but worth noting the Toronto freeway system is rather "second-generation" or beyond. For example the initial 4 / 6 lane Hwy 401 with cloverleafs and the ludicrous interchange at the (4-lane) Hwy 27 and the Airport Expressway was not at all like it is now

However, Montreal's freeway network is essentially as-built, though the Hwy 20 through western Montreal was a slow upgrade of a previous road. Even then, recently they removed a left exit / entrance on the Hwy 40 / 15 N interchange.



There has been some insane events in Montreal and regions by the way. Central Canada got some snow in the past few days. A-13 near the Dorval Airport in Montreal got snow enough that people were stranded on the highway, in the middle of a major city for 13-14 hours (!). A truck carrying hydroflouric acid along Hwy 401 near Gananoque crashed and everyone nearby was evacuated and sent to hospital (!). Several people have died inside snow-blocked cars on roads :o

People are comparing it to the previous "storm of the century" in March 1971 which dumped 48 cm of snow over Montreal and caused considerable chaos (and memories...)

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montre...tuck-1.4025860
http://montrealgazette.com/news/loca...montreal-storm
http://montrealgazette.com/news/scen...-of-march-2017
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Old March 17th, 2017, 01:26 AM   #4114
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^The 400 is largely in first generation condition right now, for example, and a lot of the interchanges are pretty poor. They are disappearing every year now though as MTO upgrades the highway, finally.

Same thing with the 401 through Durham.

Most of Toronto's highways have been extensively widened since opening, allowing highway engineers to correct previous design mistakes. The ones that haven't, such as the DVP, retain these poor features. The DVP has the only cloverleaf in the city and has some pretty crappy geometry.
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Old March 17th, 2017, 03:07 AM   #4115
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True, but the MTO has some kind of fatwa against cloverleaf interchanges and removed all of them on 400 (mostly just neutering the ramps, and Toronto did the same to most of the DVP)

It's somewhat curious thinking about the situation of cloverleafs in Ontario. They built many of them, poorly designed in general (with several notable exceptionally bad ones, like QEW/Thorold Stone Rd) and then went aggressively getting rid of them. In Quebec, there are several major cloverleaf interchanges but built later, with good geometry and C/D lanes, and they are essentially fine (e.g. those along A-440 in Laval, though the 13/440 backs up in the west/south direction due to the lack of 440 extension). Maybe only one cloverleaf was good, being the QEW / Hurontario until lately, or the 401/62 in Belleville which doesn't have enough traffic to really need any modification...
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Old March 17th, 2017, 03:28 AM   #4116
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I think a lot of the lack of cloverleafs on MTO's roads has to do with the network that has been designed. The MTO has generally fewer, but larger, and busier roads than is typical of Montreal and its suburbs. Because of this, the junctions between the freeways are busier and need to carry traffic volumes far greater than what could be adequately handled by a cloverleaf.

Furthermore, accessibility requirements means that right turn tapers at the end of the off-ramp at the intersection with a surface road have generally fallen out of favour with the MTO, which further reduces the desirability of cloverleafs between two roads where both of them aren't freeways.
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Old March 17th, 2017, 02:36 PM   #4117
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Indeed, the six ramp parclo widely used in Ontario is generally arranged so only the two left turn onramps are significantly tapered. See, e.g., here on the 407:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@43.82.../data=!3m1!1e3

This design only has two freeflow turns compared to 4-6 in a more traffic-optimized parclo like this in Florida. For accessibility and perhaps also cost reasons, the Ontario-type design is far more common.

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Old March 17th, 2017, 02:47 PM   #4118
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[duplicate]

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Old March 17th, 2017, 11:46 PM   #4119
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^ By "accessibility" I was referring to the "Accessibility for Ontarian's with Disabilities Act" (AODA) which for whatever reason has been interpreted as not being in favour of direct ramps from freeway off-ramps. The rationale isn't necessarily due to traffic operations but pedestrian safety as outlined in the AODA.
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Old March 18th, 2017, 12:37 AM   #4120
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Exactly my point - the Ontario-type arrangement is superior for pedestrians as it only has two high speed ramps rather than 4-6.
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