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Old June 30th, 2007, 03:21 AM   #501
radi6404
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Von Königsberg View Post
Radi, is there any place in the world that can beat Bulgaria in anything? You criticise German roads and compare the TCH with the local Bulgarian half-paved road without any marking. I don't know if you ever drove on TCH, but I did drive in Bulgaria back in 2002. Trust me, you cannot even compare Bulgaria and Canada because they are in different weight categories.

When Bulgaria moves 15-20 degrees to the North, builds 8,000-km expressway and manages to maintain it, then we can start this discussion again
OMG, first i am kidding, second, the road is not half paved, you talk bulshit if you say the road is half paved, the asphalt isnīt very fat there, yeah, but it also isnīt very fat on German village roads, itīs probably 4 cm, so it is on this road, too. Second, the TCH is better but the Bulgarian villageroad looks better because itīs new, thatīs just IMO ofcourse. you travelled in bulgaria back in 2002, it has changed a LOOOOOOT since then, donīt you get this? New shiny motorways were built, main streets were upgraded and still are upgradng etc. I do not say bulgaria has a good roadnetwork whoever i am proud they are upgrading it for sure. And i am not arrogant.
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Old June 30th, 2007, 03:35 AM   #502
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keber View Post
I think you're overreacting. While I wasn't yet in Canada, I'm sure that driving on that highway is not more dangerous than on many rural highways in Europe.

The most dangerous thing to drive into is a cow in Europe. In Canada, we have moose which apparently are more dangerous than cattle.

thankfully I live on the prairies and we only have cows, deer and antelope to worry about for any threats.

Also:

You'd have to be in Southern Ontario or Saskatchewan for having mere 20 km between villages. There is many stretches of highway (not necessarily Trans-Canada Highway) where there is no settlement for 300-500 km. Distances in Canada are measured in hours (hour = 100 km, minute = 2 km). You'd have to be in a metropolis area to get 1-10 km distances between towns.
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Old June 30th, 2007, 12:34 PM   #503
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nephasto View Post
?! Hum... let's see: in a rural road in Europa there's usually no wild animals like mooses regularly crossing the roads, the traffic is much higher, and your probably some 20 (or less... this would be like a worst case scenario) km's away from the nearest village.

If you sayd: It's not more dagerouse than on may rural highways in northern scandinavia, that I'd agree with you. (ok, ok, scandinacia is in Europe, but it's just a part of it)
I have to agree with you about wildlife (although deers are very common sight on roads in my neighborhood); I was more pointing about road quality:

>>> Many places have very soft shoulders, and washouts aren't uncommon.
Common sight on many Europe rural highways.
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Old June 30th, 2007, 03:18 PM   #504
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"The most dangerous thing to drive into is a cow in Europe. In Canada, we have moose which apparently are more dangerous than cattle."

They're eight feet tall, have a giant rack on their heads, are dark brown and come out at night.

"Common sight on many Europe rural highways."

Yes, but this is the TRANS CANADA, additionally, this is the only road linking east and west. In Europe, you can make a detour quickly. If the TCH between Thunder Bay and Nipigon or around the Manitoba border is severed, you're SOL. You HAVE to wait there, or go around through the US, because there is no alternate route, aside from going through back roads, which are usually dead ends and receive less than 50 vehicles a year in most cases. If you get stuck out on those, you're ****ed.
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Old June 30th, 2007, 03:27 PM   #505
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Maybe some people think that only the northern half of Canada is a real wilderness.
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Old June 30th, 2007, 05:15 PM   #506
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You don't even have to go too far from Toronto to be stuck in the middle of butt**** nowhere. :P Though it's easier to get out of their butt****s than ours, and ours are a walk in the 900 million acre park compared to Nunavut's Western-Europe-sized tundra.
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Old June 30th, 2007, 10:55 PM   #507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vid View Post
"The most dangerous thing to drive into is a cow in Europe. In Canada, we have moose which apparently are more dangerous than cattle."

They're eight feet tall, have a giant rack on their heads, are dark brown and come out at night.

"Common sight on many Europe rural highways."

Yes, but this is the TRANS CANADA, additionally, this is the only road linking east and west. In Europe, you can make a detour quickly. If the TCH between Thunder Bay and Nipigon or around the Manitoba border is severed, you're SOL. You HAVE to wait there, or go around through the US, because there is no alternate route, aside from going through back roads, which are usually dead ends and receive less than 50 vehicles a year in most cases. If you get stuck out on those, you're ****ed.
I'm very amazed at that from a national unity standpoint alone. ALL of eastern Canada and ALL of western Canada are held together at one point within Canada (it's actually about a half hour or so northeast of Thunder Bay, ON) by literally one two lane road and two single-track railroads. There aren't even any dirt sideroad alternates there. I really, honestly am very amazed that the country has held together for so long with such weak internal transport connections.

Also, the going is so rough, so incredibly rugged, north of Lake Superior that I have zero doubt that if the USA-Canada border was not where it currently is, neither the present-day TCH nor at least the CP mainline would have been built where they are now, across the top of Lake Superior. The CN mainline - a 'maybe' at most - and only the old CN line through Hearst, ON would be a definite 'yes', IMHO.

With no international border, the major east-west road and railroad connections in that region would have gone through the far, far, far, far easier present-day upper peninsula of Michigan and far northern Wisconsin.

Mike
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Old July 1st, 2007, 02:11 AM   #508
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Yes but North of Superior does have some amazing scenery.

image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr

The highway is in the lower left, you can barely see it.


CN Rail Trestle at Pass Lake. CN only has one track going into Thunder Bay from it's main rail line.
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Old July 1st, 2007, 02:20 AM   #509
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgk920 View Post
ALL of eastern Canada and ALL of western Canada are held together at one point within Canada (it's actually about a half hour or so northeast of Thunder Bay, ON) by literally one two lane road and two single-track railroads.
Amazing! Didn't know that. Could someone please show us where exactly this is? And how long the section is? Thanks in advance.
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Old July 1st, 2007, 02:34 AM   #510
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Vid just posted pictures of that area.
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Old July 1st, 2007, 02:37 AM   #511
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Well, what he said was technically incorrect. There are back roads you can take, but they're dirt roads and transports aren't generally allowed to use them, unless they have to. (Are making a delivery there, are logging trucks to an operation, etc.) but otherwise, they stay out. They don't make good detours because they're hard to navigate and have a tendency to dead end themselves quickly.

It starts between MacKenzie and Pearl, at Nelso Road
Map

It ends between Nipigon and Lake Helen, at the intersection of Trans-Canada / Ontario Highway 17 and Ontario Highway 11.
map

It's two lane in it's entirety, and gets about 8000 to 15000 vehicles per day depending on time of day and season.
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Old July 1st, 2007, 03:02 AM   #512
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Thanks, vid! You must feel important, living close. :P Anyway, that would be about 68 km (42 mi), although as I can see, the section's not left without detour for its entire length (if those roads are proper). But most of it, yes.

When was this section built? And the entire TCH?
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Old July 1st, 2007, 03:40 AM   #513
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This section was built in the 40s or 50s, before the Trans-Canada, but wasn't paved until about the late 50s early 60s I think. The TCH was completed in 1971.
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Old July 1st, 2007, 03:44 AM   #514
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^ Before our first motorway, crap. So in 1971 Canada's east and west were linked up.
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Old July 1st, 2007, 04:12 AM   #515
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By road. They were linked by rail almost 100 years earlier than that.

Speaking of rail, Thunder Bay doesn't get VIA. Some weird bureaucratic bullshit involving their management. It's been ******* hard getting them back into the city, the last guy (A Quebecor, I babysat his kids a lot. :P He lived down the street from me) got close but eventually failed. Another report is being done, though. Hopefully by 2010 we'll get more passenger rail other than the stray Orient Express popping up for no apparent reason. :P


MP should push for highways
By Karl Lehto, Thunder Bay
Wednesday, June 27, 2007


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Congratulations to Joe Comuzzi for standing up for Thunder Bay and his decision to join the Conservative Party of Canada. Hopefully this will stimulate a new vision of hope for our city, our region, and all of Northern Ontario.
I have no particular political affiliation but I will vote Conservative in a heartbeat – as will many of us from Kenora to Sudbury – if Comuzzi can convince Prime Minister Stephen Harper that one issue will have a huge impact on national unity, national and local tourism, transportation, travel safety and the general economic revival of Northern Ontario.
He must explain to Harper that the longest, brutally neglected, substandard, dangerous, non-divided stretch of the Trans-Canada Highway in Canada exists in Northern Ontario. It is a national disgrace and the single biggest deterrent to our economic revival.
Remind Mr. Harper that from Nipigon to Shabaqua there is no alternative route should a disastrous accident befall any bridge on this section of our national highway and all east-west highway traffic in our country would immediately cease.
Also remind the Prime Minister that Highway 17 is not a road to nowhere, but part of our only national highway. As one of the richest countries in the world, we should have at least one decent divided highway from coast to coast!
Sir John A. Macdonald had a national dream to unite this country by rail. Perhaps Mr. Harper can rekindle and revise the Trans-Canada Highway Act of 1949 with a new national dream to build a decent divided highway, starting right here and right now – with no more feasibility studies – from Nipigon to Shabaqua, where it is needed most.
And to all our national and provincial politicians representing Northern Ontario, I think it is time to follow Joe‘s lead by putting our desperate needs ahead of individual party lines.
Above all, fight tooth and nail for us in Northern Ontario.

http://www.chroniclejournal.com/stories.php?id=50977
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Last edited by vid; July 1st, 2007 at 04:59 AM.
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Old July 1st, 2007, 05:01 AM   #516
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Although, as I can see, if going from Canada's far east to far west (by road), it's faster through the US.
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Old July 1st, 2007, 05:06 AM   #517
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Yes, their highways are divided, so you can drive faster. They're also straighter, ours curves and bends too much.
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Old July 1st, 2007, 06:33 AM   #518
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It's two lane in it's entirety, and gets about 8000 to 15000 vehicles per day depending on time of day and season.[/QUOTE]

Its not nearly that busy. In 2003 annual average traffic ranged from 5200 to 3400 AADT on this stretch of highway. The benchmark for constructing a freeway is usually at about the 10,000AADT range (sometimes a tad lower if a corridor is accelerated, which generally happen for political reasons).

For anyone who has seen any South Park episodes where they make fun of Canada for only having one road, they are indeed correct for parts of this stretch (and a few sections near Kenora as well). Personally I think it is a tad ridiculous for there not to be any sort of alternate route through this stretch, a secondary highway would suffice for much of the length. For anyone looking for a more detailed photo tour of this stretch of the TCH, I invite them to look at my website's coverage of this portion of Highway 17:

http://www.onthighways.com/hwy_17_im...p2b_images.htm

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Old July 1st, 2007, 02:22 PM   #519
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Yes, their highways are divided, so you can drive faster. They're also straighter, ours curves and bends too much.
Who want's to drive such a great distance? (only freaks like us )
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Old July 1st, 2007, 04:35 PM   #520
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Thank you!
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