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Old May 28th, 2008, 09:21 PM   #1081
Xusein
 
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The 401 is truly a monster.
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Old May 29th, 2008, 05:36 AM   #1082
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"How did those Canadians get all those roads?"

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Old May 29th, 2008, 06:22 AM   #1083
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nice
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Old May 29th, 2008, 06:57 PM   #1084
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10ROT View Post
The 401 is truly a monster.
ON 401 would likely be just a typical 4x4 suburban-style (even though it is very much inside the city) freeway had its outer roadways been built as a separate freeway along Eglinton Ave as originally planned.

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Old May 30th, 2008, 08:30 PM   #1085
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I know that this may not be completely on topic, but I have been trying to mimic Toronto's highways in Sim City 4. Setting up the collector/express system is tricky, but can be quite useful at reducing congestion.

Here are some photos of my collector/express highway setups:







My ultimate goal is to construct a massive, 20+ lane highway similar in appearance to the 401 near Pearson International Airport.

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Last edited by Haljackey; May 30th, 2008 at 08:56 PM.
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Old May 30th, 2008, 08:32 PM   #1086
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Nice.

What's that in the center? A sidewalk
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Old May 31st, 2008, 01:01 AM   #1087
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
Nice.

What's that in the center? A sidewalk
yeah, although it's intended to be a centre median.\

where did you get to cool highway set from?
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Old May 31st, 2008, 01:26 AM   #1088
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Even the good ones have ugly freeways.

Death to the freeway!
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Old May 31st, 2008, 01:46 AM   #1089
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Today the City of Toronto has announced a major plan to cancel a proposed expressway and demolish a section of an existing highway in order to develop the waterfront.

http://www.waterfrontoronto.ca/dynam...=442ee40e416d7


red = currently proposed demolition
scarlet = potential future demolition (the Mayor supports demolishing in stages)
blue = cancelled expressway

image hosted on flickr

View of red section
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Old May 31st, 2008, 05:52 AM   #1090
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Does he realize that to replace the Gardiner they will have to build a boulevard street with FIVE or SIX LANES in each direction??? Who'll ever want to try to walk across THAT?

That'll cut the lakefront off worse than the existing elevated freeway!

The surface part of Lake Shore Drive through Grant Park in Chicago (four lanes in each direction) is bad enough with nothing on the lake side of the road - and Chicago closed off a pedestrian crossing of it (by Queen's Landing) within the past few years, too.



Mike
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Old May 31st, 2008, 05:58 AM   #1091
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I too am unsure of why a grade level road is supposed to be a better solution.
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Old May 31st, 2008, 06:05 AM   #1092
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it seems dumb, I haven't read the current report but demolishing the expressway is touted as a way to make pedestrian access easier. Right now cars and peds exist on different levels, how is removing the expressway going to improve that??

Dumb.
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Old May 31st, 2008, 08:31 AM   #1093
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Horrible decision. We hardly have enough expressways in Toronto as it is. It won't reduce traffic, but rather will simply make commutes less efficient and more lengthy, and won't improve the waterfront one bit.

The waterfront needs improvement as it is, without consideration for any freeways. A lot can be done there. Replacing a freeway with a regular street with traffic lights is the most retarded thing in the world. I do agree, though, that the Gardiner probably still needs to be demolished in parts simply because it is falling apart. But it should be rebuilt as a freeway.
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Old May 31st, 2008, 08:38 AM   #1094
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image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


source: http://www.flickr.com/photos/news46/...7603495793491/
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Old May 31st, 2008, 11:47 AM   #1095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCat View Post
Horrible decision. We hardly have enough expressways in Toronto as it is. It won't reduce traffic, but rather will simply make commutes less efficient and more lengthy, and won't improve the waterfront one bit.

The waterfront needs improvement as it is, without consideration for any freeways. A lot can be done there. Replacing a freeway with a regular street with traffic lights is the most retarded thing in the world. I do agree, though, that the Gardiner probably still needs to be demolished in parts simply because it is falling apart. But it should be rebuilt as a freeway.
What about a freeway that's below grade? They have that at the Barcelona waterfront, looks pretty good, and doesn't ruin the city.
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Old May 31st, 2008, 05:13 PM   #1096
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
What about a freeway that's below grade? They have that at the Barcelona waterfront, looks pretty good, and doesn't ruin the city.
The concern with tunnelling is cost. They would need to excavate the tunnel while maintaining both the existing at-grade roads plus the elevated expressway to minimize construction/disruption time. If they tore down the elevated portion, temporarily replaced it with the widened roads then tunnelled it would just extend the construction period. That portion of the city is built on reclaimed land and the existing tunnels are already having a hard time keeping the water out. I hope they have a decent means of waterproofing the tunnel. All in all, Toronto is not looking forward to it's own Big Dig fiasco.

The portion they are planning to remove has the lowest traffic levels of the entire expressway. Replacing it with an 8-lane boulevard (with a wide median) was supposed to make the area more people-friendly. There will need to be some other improvements to handle the traffic coming off of the Don Valley Parkway which currently ends at the Gardiner.
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Old May 31st, 2008, 05:23 PM   #1097
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCat View Post
Horrible decision. We hardly have enough expressways in Toronto as it is. It won't reduce traffic, but rather will simply make commutes less efficient and more lengthy, and won't improve the waterfront one bit.

The waterfront needs improvement as it is, without consideration for any freeways. A lot can be done there. Replacing a freeway with a regular street with traffic lights is the most retarded thing in the world. I do agree, though, that the Gardiner probably still needs to be demolished in parts simply because it is falling apart. But it should be rebuilt as a freeway.
The Gardiner is like any elevated structure and requires maintenance, but it is not falling apart. How is an at-grade freeway is a better solution than a raised freeway that you can freely drive or walk under? How the heck are we supposed to cross an at-grade freeway, as pedestrians?


Toronto does not have the luxury of massive federal funding, like Boston had when it launched its
(dubious) Big Dig project to bury the freeway. The only conceivable way to do it is by using private developers and giving them building rights on top.
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Old May 31st, 2008, 10:38 PM   #1098
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Although it's a tantalizing quick fix, razing the Gardiner without making any realistic provisions for traffic is a terrible idea. As has been discussed before ad nauseam, the ideal solution, apart from successfully reducing traffic downtown without killing off the area, would be to make the highway (and railway, for that matter) subterranean along the entire length of the waterfront. But there's no funding for anything ambitious, or even anything unambitious like the Miller-endorsed plan.

Last edited by Grey Towers; June 1st, 2008 at 06:21 AM.
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Old May 31st, 2008, 11:08 PM   #1099
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I have no problems with demolishing this part of the Gardiner. Here's why:


1.) This portion of the Gardiner (east of Jarvis) see's much less volume than the rest. It's hardly justified. This is because most traffic on the gardiner is bound for downtown. Eastbound commuters get off at Spadina, Westbound gets off at either Bloor or Richmond. It's a relative dead zone in between. Compare it to Autoroute 20 in downtown Montreal... it ends just east of downtown, and doesn't begin as an expressway until you're across the river.

2.) Currently the gardiner is replicated underneath by Lakeshore East, so pedestrian access (in terms of crossing) is hardly better now than without the Gardiner. I believe Lakeshore along there is 3-lanes anyways; they won't make it wider than than that. With a new at-grade thoroughfare, there is a potential new street for pedestrians and cyclists. Anyone here ever walk or bike along lakeshore underneath the Gardiner?

3.) Demolishing this portion would be an obvious catalyst for development. The city get's a new chance at building a proper boulevard (think University, but much better). Property along both sides skyrocket in value.

4.) A new at-grade row could easily have LRT with ROW.

5.) Demolishing roughly half of the elevated portion of the Gardiner doubles the amount of maintenance funds for the other half.

Of course, all of my points have great potential for the city to screw up.
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Old May 31st, 2008, 11:20 PM   #1100
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I just checked, and the Gardiner still carries 108,000 vehicles a day at that point. Turning it into an at grade intersection highway creates massive traffic jams, or you have to build an ultra wide urban artery to handle that amount of traffic with traffic lights.

So you either have a daylong traffic jam including all extra pollution
Or an insanely wide boulevard, which is perhaps even more of a barrier than the now-elevated section of the Gardiner.

Toronto Traffic volumes (PDF)

Besides that, for 300 million dollar, there could be a hell lot of maintenance. Perhaps you can even construct the Gardiner subterranean there.
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