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Old April 22nd, 2009, 10:15 PM   #1301
Haljackey
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Well asphalt has to be maintained, but its a lot easier and cheaper to fill in a pothole on a asphalt highway than concrete.

Sometimes in the US they fill in potholes on concrete highways with asphalt, looks horrible.

And I agree if its built right, concrete can last longer.




Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I wonder how long it's gonna take before some Phoenix, Houston or Atlanta freeway is gonna overtake the 401 to be the busiest in the world.
I doubt it.

If anything is to beat the 401, its going to be somewhere in the developing world.

Have you see some of the traffic in Shanghai, Mumbai or Lagos? Its a mess!
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Old April 22nd, 2009, 10:24 PM   #1302
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Yeah, but I don't see those countries building 16-lane freeways, which you need to handle 420.000 + AADT. Cities like I mentioned grow over 100,000 people per year.
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Old April 22nd, 2009, 11:07 PM   #1303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Yeah, but I don't see those countries building 16-lane freeways, which you need to handle 420.000 + AADT. Cities like I mentioned grow over 100,000 people per year.
I'm not sure about that. Some of the highways in Beijing are pretty wide, and I'm sure they have plans to go wider.

To get the highest AADT, you don't have to be the widest, but it helps!
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Old April 23rd, 2009, 05:40 AM   #1304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haljackey View Post
I'm not sure about that. Some of the highways in Beijing are pretty wide, and I'm sure they have plans to go wider.

To get the highest AADT, you don't have to be the widest, but it helps!
None of the freeways in Beijing that I saw on my recent visit were anything wider than 4 lanes in each direction (and most were only 3). And in Shanghai the widest are 3 lanes in each direction (as most of them are elevated). So there's no way that they will ever come close to matching the traffic numbers of the 401, which is twice as wide, or more.
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Old April 23rd, 2009, 02:50 PM   #1305
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I don't know if anything in the west will surpass the 401 for a while. Toronto is still growing pretty rapidly, and there are no plans to build any additional east-west capacity in the GTA. A lot of US cities are larger then Toronto, and certainly have more traffic, however by in large they have more routes as well.
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Old April 24th, 2009, 04:18 AM   #1306
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BTW here's a pic of the new section of the 410, concrete and all:



Looks like the 401 was concrete too back in the day:
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Old April 24th, 2009, 09:33 AM   #1307
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Great pictures haljackey! Both of them! Where did you get the 410 one? Is there more? I really like the look and style of the concrete on the extensions. I hope the MTO keeps up with this trend.
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Old April 24th, 2009, 11:46 PM   #1308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick1016 View Post
Great pictures haljackey! Both of them! Where did you get the 410 one? Is there more? I really like the look and style of the concrete on the extensions. I hope the MTO keeps up with this trend.
I actually got it from the MTO.

Here's the link:
http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/french/pubs/highway-construction/southern-highway-2008/partB.shtml
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Last edited by Haljackey; April 24th, 2009 at 11:53 PM.
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Old April 28th, 2009, 08:07 AM   #1309
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Here's a pic of a new interchange along an upgraded section of Highway 69/400.

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Old April 29th, 2009, 10:11 AM   #1310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Yeah, but I don't see those countries building 16-lane freeways, which you need to handle 420.000 + AADT. Cities like I mentioned grow over 100,000 people per year.
The 401 still has a considerable volume lead on the #2 busiest highway in the world. Those cities you mentioned may be growing by 100,000 people per year, but so is Toronto. If Toronto could add more lanes, they would, but they've run out of room to do so. I'd imagine the record will probably end up going to a city in Asia somewhere.
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Old April 30th, 2009, 02:21 AM   #1311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haljackey View Post
Here's a pic of a new interchange along an upgraded section of Highway 69/400.
Good one, I believe I actually saw that one on the MTO website.
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Old May 2nd, 2009, 07:06 AM   #1312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
The 401 still has a considerable volume lead on the #2 busiest highway in the world. Those cities you mentioned may be growing by 100,000 people per year, but so is Toronto. If Toronto could add more lanes, they would, but they've run out of room to do so. I'd imagine the record will probably end up going to a city in Asia somewhere.
Probably not in Asia, since transit is a bit higher on the priority list. Imagine the car use rates from North America imposed on Tokyo. Nobody would get anywhere.
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Old May 10th, 2009, 05:57 AM   #1313
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Quick question: which has lower rolling resistance - concrete or asphault? Maybe it is cause I'm used to driving on asphault, but it feels I have to use more power (aka: gas) on the 407 than the other 400 highways to maintain cruising speed at 100km/h (yes, unless I'm running late, I do drive 100km/h on the 407. I'll probably bring it down to 90km/h when gas reaches $1/litre too). It might all be in my head though.

At least with concrete, it creates an awesome jet-like sound when driving on it
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Old May 10th, 2009, 06:45 AM   #1314
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I thought concrete is not as good on cars but maintenance-wise is better (think they had a bit of debate about this when they decided to use concrete surfacing for the 407).
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Old May 13th, 2009, 05:22 AM   #1315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Yeah, but I don't see those countries building 16-lane freeways, which you need to handle 420.000 + AADT. Cities like I mentioned grow over 100,000 people per year.
Toronto grows by over 100k per year
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Old June 25th, 2009, 01:29 AM   #1316
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why not show toronto and highway 401
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Old June 25th, 2009, 01:58 AM   #1317
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Because they're not in Quebec?
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Old June 25th, 2009, 10:31 AM   #1318
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There is a thread for Canadian roads
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Old July 2nd, 2009, 06:12 PM   #1319
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A fan's vision of the Gardiner as it could be
Leslie Klein's plan for a seven-kilometre garden atop the freeway seeks to beautify what many see as Toronto's biggest scar
26 June 2009
The Globe and Mail



Toronto's Frederick G. Gardiner Expressway has few friends these days.

But the massive elevated highway does have at least one very enthusiastic ally: Leslie Klein, principal in the Toronto firm of Quadrangle Architects.

Last week, at IdeaCity – the annual jamboree of innovative thinking organized by media entrepreneur Moses Znaimer – Mr. Klein brought the audience to its feet with a rousing proposal, not merely to save the Gardiner from its many enemies, but also to make the huge concrete structure the foundation for a “green ribbon” of parks and paths that would float above its traffic decks.

“My notion is that we keep the Gardiner in place, and build a green roof on top of it,” Mr. Klein told me during an IdeaCity lunch break. “It will be a seven-kilometre linear park in the sky from Dufferin Street, where the expressway becomes elevated, all the way to the Don Valley Parkway, with lush landscaping, grass, shrubs and trees, and paths for biking and walking. This will remove the heat-island effect in the city and dramatically improve public [driving] safety. All of a sudden, the elevated part of the Gardiner will not be exposed to snow or rain or ice. All of a sudden, you don't have the problem of early-morning or late-afternoon sun glare.”

Thepark would be equipped with solar panels and small wind generators that, Mr. Klein estimates, would produce enough power to light the “green ribbon,” the traffic deck and the ground under the expressway. “All these things are simple things, not new technologies,” he said. “They're easy to implement now.”

Much of the irritation felt by Gardiner opponents has to do, not with the elevated aspects of the structure, but with the land below the roadway, which is crowded with traffic and littered with unsightly dead spots. Mr. Klein's project calls for giving new thought to what happens at grade.

“Our feeling is that, once you've accomplished the beautification of the Gardiner, below the roadway will be a much more attractive place. There are opportunities to do really innovative things. In New York, they've built under the Queensboro Bridge a facility called Bridge Market, essentially a fruit and food market, right under the roadway. I can see that kind of thing happening here.”

And the cost of all this construction and revision? Working with structural engineers and other experts, Mr. Klein has come up with a figure somewhere around $500-million or $600-million. (He estimates that a wholesale demolition of the Gardiner's elevated portions would come it at between $1-billion and $1.5-billion.) What must be avoided, Mr. Klein believes, is the complete teardown that many vocal Torontonians, including some at City Hall, are now tilting toward.

If the Gardiner is demolished without the construction of a vastly improved, attractive transit system to connect the suburbs and the inner city, “more and more people will choose to live, shop and work and play outside the downtown, because getting downtown will be so much more difficult,” Mr. Klein said. “You can't deny the fact that 200,000 cars a day use the Gardiner to get downtown.”

I asked him what he thought of the oft-repeated argument that the Gardiner decisively separates the city from its waterfront.

“Fundamentally, I don't believe it,” Mr. Klein said. “No matter how much you deny it, the reality is that [first Metro chairman] Fred Gardiner's idea of putting the fast-moving vehicles high above and keeping the access below for pedestrians, cars and services, is the right thing to do, when you're trying to promote access to the waterfront. Our suggestion will promote access to the waterfront, because we're also talking about beautifying the area below the Gardiner, making a place where people aren't afraid to walk, where it isn't dark and dingy and horrible. If you can do that, you actually open up the waterfront to the downtown.”

Mr. Klein's proposals are rooted in sound urbanism and a devotion to preserving downtown Toronto (against the suction of the burgeoning suburbs) as a vital destination for work, study, recreation and commerce. But his passion also springs from personal experience of the Gardiner.

“In 1975, I came to Toronto from the United States, and I saw downtown for the first time from the Gardiner Expressway. I was excited. It was so full of promise. Did I think I was riding on the evil, horrible Gardiner Expressway? No! I felt that I was arriving at a place, and it was an incredible sense of arrival. For me at that point, and for many until that time, the Gardiner was a symbol of success and progress, exactly as Fred Gardiner imagined it would be. … The Gardiner is an essential part of the city's being permeable.”
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Old July 2nd, 2009, 07:12 PM   #1320
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Well its either that or put it underground like the Boston Big Dig. The complete removal of the Gardiner Expressway would cause havoc for Toronto's drivers and economy.

Although beautification will make it more attractive than the ugly chunk of concrete it is now, it won't make up for the road noise and traffic that the Gardiner is known for. Its a step in the right direction, but there are many more steps to take.
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